Hollows: Key Issues surrounding this Underplayed Race
Jun 11, 2015 11:17:14 GMT -5
Kaen Youji likes this
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 11:17:14 GMT -5
Hello everyone, Ray here, let's talk a little bit about Hollows. Firstly, I want to stress that this is not a discussion to try and make the Hollow leveling a easier process. The point of this is to, instead, suggest ways that we can make the leveling system more viable. As it stands now, the leveling system for Hollows is, rather, outdated and is a far more of a task than it is for any other race on the site. Even for races whom are "stronger" have less hassle than Hollows do (Vizards, Akki, Failures). As we all know, the primary reason that nobody plays Hollows is due to this system, while there is also the fact people don't wanna play as a big drooling monster, but we've all seen people complaining about the system. Even our mods have, in fact, stated before that they feel the system needs some tweaking, or a complete overhaul. I would rather see it be tweaked to make it more viable (and possible). The point of this thread is for me to point out a few key points about the current issues with the race, and hopefully we can all work together to formulate a much better system.
Let's just go ahead and get the elephant out of the room. The leveling path is the issue that most everyone is familiar with, and the one that everyone brings up when talking about playing a Hollow. Credit where it is due, Hollows do have the most unique of the leveling systems, Vizards coming in as second most interesting. For those unaware, such as the newbies, Hollows do not acquire CTP like the other races do. While completion of threads will reward them with TP, they are unable to turn these points into CTP, only into TTP or SP. They can only acquire set amounts of CTP by, literally, eating members of other races. These CTP values are set upon what they eat, as well as the class at which they are eaten (please refer to here if you're still unaware of this).
I want to reiterate that I don't believe this needs to be changed, entirely. I do think, though, that this needs to be tweaked to make it a more viable system. One of the key issues surrounding the leveling is that, while this isn't something that can necessarily be helped, is that there are not enough RPCs to get a Hollow to Class 1. Let me explain. In order for a Hollow to receive CTP, they need to actually win their PvPs and eat their opponents. While our mods allow Hollows to eat NPCs in threads, this still isn't a viable system. Hollow players can't spend their times doing nothing but eating in a thread, ignoring their opponents or just eating dozens of dozens of people a post. This is, honestly, a silly idea and I am glad that it isn't allowed. So, what is a way that we can fix this?
One member suggested something called a "Feeding / Rampage" Thread. This thread is, essentially, a unique variation of a Joint Training Thread, the purpose of which is to focus entirely on acquiring CTP. While the complete details of this suggestion are fuzzy to me, I believe that the way that these threads were made much more viable was the fact that CTP values were to be doubled, and multiple amounts of things could be eaten in one post, due to the threads being a mandatory DE. What balanced this idea was that the Hollow player could only post once a day, and the fact that this thread was allowed to be invaded. As we know, Shinigami will intervene when a Hollow gets too crazy and starts eating more and more. Once the RPC Hollow had posted enough times (say 3), a Shinigami player of a similar Class could invade the thread without warning and initiate a PvP with the Hollow. Not only could it be Shinigami though, but Quincy and Fullbringers would also be allowed to invade and stop the Hollow. This was the idea that I, personally, liked the best. It kept the leveling system the same, but introduced a much more accessible and viable way to acquire CTP (If the original idea maker could correct me if I made some mistakes in this suggestion, it would be much appreciated).
Let's get to the second issue that I feel needs to be brought up. Hollows are, speaking SP wise, equal in strength to Fullbringers. They are statistically weaker than Shinigami, even for those Hollows that completed Training Tier , and this doesn't make any sense from a canon point of view. See, it has been stated that Hollows are supposed to be much stronger than they actually are. While the abundance of their "Release" can be seen as a compensation for their weakness, it isn't a good reason to make them so much weaker in stats that Shinigami. I am talking about the canon statement that Vastro Lordes are supposed to be stronger than at least two Captains. However, this isn't the case. Some may argue that Stats aren't everthing, but considering the fact that Shinigami can have 200 (or even 400 ((not going to count Kenpachi, Zero Division, or Captain Commander))) more SP than Hollows, and even a much large range of selectable types, then yes the stat argument is rather valid.
So, what is the suggested way to fix this? I talked about this with some other members, and they seemed to be interested and liked the idea. It's a comination of my own and one other members idea, to make Hollows much stronger in a more interesting way; Stat Point Caps based on Evolution level. Need some examples? Here you go; Basic Hollows can have a maximum of 1000 SP, Gillians would be maxed at 1400, Adjucha at 1800, and Vastro Lorde at 2300. The Vastro Lorde cap is also the SP of a Class 1 Mask Break Arrancar, which is the class that Mask Break should actually be happening. So, this system would make each level of Hollow stronger than the last, as it should be, and also makes them as strong as they should be.
Here is the canon statement over Vastro Lorde strength. If Col wants to find the manga chapter, that'd be great too. This isn't a instance where we can say "no, we're not following canon" when we've done it with much more stuff (Quincy x Arrancar stuff, for example, and introduction of the blank Zanpakuto spirits into our lore)
So, let's all be honest here. We all know the reason why people think about playing Hollows. People want to get to Class 1, Mask Break, and become a Kuroi Tier Arrancar. It's not a bad system. You deal with the most difficult training tier system on the site and get to become a powerful Arrancar. But, as it stands, that's the only reason to become a Hollow. And, frankly, that isn't really fair. Hollows are just as much a race as everything else (except Saika, fuck those guys), and should receive a end game goal just like everything else. I'm not talking about becoming Arrancar, Hollow RPCs should be given some sort of goal that isn't just mask breaking. Las Arenas gave them a huge opportunity, I am sure we can all agree on this, but I feel that there is another step that should be taken. I think Hollows should be given Class 0, albeit I feel it needs to take around 100,000 CTP to reach. And, once they reach Class 0 what happens? Well they become one of those world eating "SEND THE ZERO SQUAD" kaiju class Hollows. /s
So yeah, hopefully we can get a meaningful discussion going. Hopefully the guys who suggested those great ideas for Hollows will add to the discussion, but until then I hope this doesn't simply be ignored.
Issue #1: Leveling
Let's just go ahead and get the elephant out of the room. The leveling path is the issue that most everyone is familiar with, and the one that everyone brings up when talking about playing a Hollow. Credit where it is due, Hollows do have the most unique of the leveling systems, Vizards coming in as second most interesting. For those unaware, such as the newbies, Hollows do not acquire CTP like the other races do. While completion of threads will reward them with TP, they are unable to turn these points into CTP, only into TTP or SP. They can only acquire set amounts of CTP by, literally, eating members of other races. These CTP values are set upon what they eat, as well as the class at which they are eaten (please refer to here if you're still unaware of this).
I want to reiterate that I don't believe this needs to be changed, entirely. I do think, though, that this needs to be tweaked to make it a more viable system. One of the key issues surrounding the leveling is that, while this isn't something that can necessarily be helped, is that there are not enough RPCs to get a Hollow to Class 1. Let me explain. In order for a Hollow to receive CTP, they need to actually win their PvPs and eat their opponents. While our mods allow Hollows to eat NPCs in threads, this still isn't a viable system. Hollow players can't spend their times doing nothing but eating in a thread, ignoring their opponents or just eating dozens of dozens of people a post. This is, honestly, a silly idea and I am glad that it isn't allowed. So, what is a way that we can fix this?
One member suggested something called a "Feeding / Rampage" Thread. This thread is, essentially, a unique variation of a Joint Training Thread, the purpose of which is to focus entirely on acquiring CTP. While the complete details of this suggestion are fuzzy to me, I believe that the way that these threads were made much more viable was the fact that CTP values were to be doubled, and multiple amounts of things could be eaten in one post, due to the threads being a mandatory DE. What balanced this idea was that the Hollow player could only post once a day, and the fact that this thread was allowed to be invaded. As we know, Shinigami will intervene when a Hollow gets too crazy and starts eating more and more. Once the RPC Hollow had posted enough times (say 3), a Shinigami player of a similar Class could invade the thread without warning and initiate a PvP with the Hollow. Not only could it be Shinigami though, but Quincy and Fullbringers would also be allowed to invade and stop the Hollow. This was the idea that I, personally, liked the best. It kept the leveling system the same, but introduced a much more accessible and viable way to acquire CTP (If the original idea maker could correct me if I made some mistakes in this suggestion, it would be much appreciated).
Issue #2: Incorrect Distribution of Power
Let's get to the second issue that I feel needs to be brought up. Hollows are, speaking SP wise, equal in strength to Fullbringers. They are statistically weaker than Shinigami, even for those Hollows that completed Training Tier , and this doesn't make any sense from a canon point of view. See, it has been stated that Hollows are supposed to be much stronger than they actually are. While the abundance of their "Release" can be seen as a compensation for their weakness, it isn't a good reason to make them so much weaker in stats that Shinigami. I am talking about the canon statement that Vastro Lordes are supposed to be stronger than at least two Captains. However, this isn't the case. Some may argue that Stats aren't everthing, but considering the fact that Shinigami can have 200 (or even 400 ((not going to count Kenpachi, Zero Division, or Captain Commander))) more SP than Hollows, and even a much large range of selectable types, then yes the stat argument is rather valid.
So, what is the suggested way to fix this? I talked about this with some other members, and they seemed to be interested and liked the idea. It's a comination of my own and one other members idea, to make Hollows much stronger in a more interesting way; Stat Point Caps based on Evolution level. Need some examples? Here you go; Basic Hollows can have a maximum of 1000 SP, Gillians would be maxed at 1400, Adjucha at 1800, and Vastro Lorde at 2300. The Vastro Lorde cap is also the SP of a Class 1 Mask Break Arrancar, which is the class that Mask Break should actually be happening. So, this system would make each level of Hollow stronger than the last, as it should be, and also makes them as strong as they should be.
Here is the canon statement over Vastro Lorde strength. If Col wants to find the manga chapter, that'd be great too. This isn't a instance where we can say "no, we're not following canon" when we've done it with much more stuff (Quincy x Arrancar stuff, for example, and introduction of the blank Zanpakuto spirits into our lore)
So, let's all be honest here. We all know the reason why people think about playing Hollows. People want to get to Class 1, Mask Break, and become a Kuroi Tier Arrancar. It's not a bad system. You deal with the most difficult training tier system on the site and get to become a powerful Arrancar. But, as it stands, that's the only reason to become a Hollow. And, frankly, that isn't really fair. Hollows are just as much a race as everything else (except Saika, fuck those guys), and should receive a end game goal just like everything else. I'm not talking about becoming Arrancar, Hollow RPCs should be given some sort of goal that isn't just mask breaking. Las Arenas gave them a huge opportunity, I am sure we can all agree on this, but I feel that there is another step that should be taken. I think Hollows should be given Class 0, albeit I feel it needs to take around 100,000 CTP to reach. And, once they reach Class 0 what happens? Well they become one of those world eating "SEND THE ZERO SQUAD" kaiju class Hollows. /s
So yeah, hopefully we can get a meaningful discussion going. Hopefully the guys who suggested those great ideas for Hollows will add to the discussion, but until then I hope this doesn't simply be ignored.
