Kido Skill Reqs?

[Tsajara Dread]

So it's kinda occurred to me that unlike Hakuda/Hoho, techniques of the physical variety that at higher tiers MOST OFTEN have skill requirements in order to pull them off. Hado and Bakudo don't have ANY!
And in comparison there is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher emphasis put on what it takes to pull off such high level kido. (The leveling system as well as conversations regarding the use of certain kido when it is used).

Though even if there wasn't, it does feel as though our current system does step on physicals a bit more than they do those who fight with Kido. And Kido has a SIGNIFICANTLY higher damage output and utlity compared to most Hakuda and Hoho. And really the only skill requirements anyone seems to take are mental incantation and things like kido fusion.

So I'm kinda curious about what other people think about this. Especially those playing shinigami, though any opinion is certainly welcome.

[Alexander Kuma-Hebi]

Well, to be honest, Kido can be taken as a skill in itself, and while I am unsure what its immediate benefits are, it is a requirement to learn Kido fusion. Additionaly, Kido has no skill requirement because that would put Shinigami at disadvantage (seeing as for example, Cero has no skill requirements either). Hakuda and Hoho have skill requirements because they are mostly light on Reiatsu consumption (or don't cost any), as opposed to the Kido which ALWAYS has them. And also, without the right skill set, you have to at least yell the name of the tech you are using to your opponent. So, in my opinion, it is for balance sake, and seems fine to me.

P.S. Higher damage output? Try being hit for example by Kimiko. See that damage.

[Tsajara Dread]

That is not a uniform case though.

Shadow Step: Class 4, 100 reiatsu instead of 150

This is the only case among the Hakuda that I could find that has a lower reiatsu cost than the par for it's class. All the others were equal or higher.
And Cero is an innate skill for Hollows/arrancar. Competetiveness with the strongest race on site should not be an excuse for railing Physical builds in the behind.

Also Damage output for physical builds revolves almost entirely upon how much strength they have. I was referring to the scae of damage they are capable of putting out. A Hakuda master with 60 Strength will be doing a much smaller scale of damage than shini with 50 rs who decides to learn raikoho.

[Impossible]

Also, I'd like to add for those who bother with Mental incantation, at level three it basically gives you Kido fusion.

With a 3, the user can cast the Kido (wordlessly) and then say the incantation after the user of the Kido itself, increasing the Kido strength while it is in mid flight. A 3 will also allow one to speak two incantations simultaneously interwoven in each other, releasing a doubled Kido as per the Nijū Eishō style of incantation.

I can't Quote that thread, but it's in the skill section under mental incantation.

[Alexander Kuma-Hebi]

Among Hakuda? I have to point out that you are wrong. Usually, if Hakuda tech has no cost listed it means it has none (with several like Hundred Fangs being the exception). But regardless, let us observe a simple thing. Let us envision two characters, A and B. Lets say A is Hakuda user with 300 strength and B is Kido user with 300 RS, with all their remaining stats at 100. Lets look at that for a bit. If B manages to hit A with a Kido, with exception of 90s Kido, A will on general survive that one hit. On the opposite, if A manages to get one hit with Hakuda, B is pretty much done for. And if they don't manage to hit each other but dodge all of the time, A will still come out on top because he is generally only using up his stamina to attack, while B is burning Reiatsu and stamina BOTH. And on top of it, Kido requires far more tactical approach to utilize properly. So yeah, Kido is fine as it is IMO, without skill requirements. And this comes from somebody who plays Hakuda character, dealing with skill requirements and sutch.

[Impossible]

So in that scenario, the Kido user has the ability to use a number of abilities to defend themselves from the strength user, while also being as fast, able to keep the strength user at a distance, while the strength user can only punch their opponents at close range, which there are also Kido for, Like Geki of Byakurai. This puts the strength user on the backfoot, and is at both a range disadvantage, and a versatility disadvantage.

[Alexander Kuma-Hebi]

You are correct, but I put extremely simplified example to ilustrate a point... Besides, using all of those will burn Reiatsu and stamina way faster than using Hakuda. It will lead into situation, I belive, in which Kido user has no Reatsu to casta Kido, or one when he hits 0 Reiatsu, which by default means falling unconscious.

[Impossible]

Yes, but using low level Kido to fight a strength user at the moment is just point and fire. Not to mention that you can use them close range, negating any advantage that the strength user would have. And a stamina drain wouldn't matter too much if the opponent is beat. Or stunned, in the case of Geki. I had a fight where this happened, where, as a strength and speed user, couldn't get close to my kido using opponent, and he wasn't even forced to release.

[Tsajara Dread]

Kido is not more expensive than Hakuda/Hoho. Unlisted reiatsu costs are ALWAYS treated as it being par for whatever class the techniques are. This is how it was described for me. If this is not correct? Then I would like a mod ruling stating this as this would be a very different set to look at.

And the drawbacks of the class 2 kido compared to the class 2 hakuda are comparable, if not inferior.
Muscle Strain, Stamina reduction, Damaging of limbs and body are common EVEN in Hakuda below class 2.

And Hakuda cannot be performed without reiatsu. You can try to mimic it with pure physical finesse, but it's not the same.

[Kaen Youji]

For the record, personal biases and preferences aside, I don't have a horse in this race. However, I would like to point out that the Kido Skill is a somewhat unique skill, in that it is ONLY applicable for the use of Kido Spells. As far as I know, this is the only Skill that is exclusively useful for the purposes of performing a specific subset of techniques (along with Mental Incantation).

By contrast, any form of martial art-based skill, be it Hakuda, Karate, Boxing, Tae Kwon Do, Shaolin Kung Fu or whatever it may be, can be an effective and useful skill, even if the character in question has NO Hakuda techniques. In this case, Hakuda techniques serve to amplify the power of the Skill. In the case of Kido, it is reversed-- the Kido and Mental Incantation Skills exist solely to amplify the power of specific techniques. In all other circumstances they are effectively deadweight, unlike Hakuda, where, even in a long range engagement, you could still feasibly use the footwork present in martial arts to counter or evade ranged attacks.

Just something to consider.

[Garret]

Live footage of Kido user vs Hakuda user

But jokes aside, there is a legit concern here. Someone can very well load up on some of the strongest Kido on site without needing to take ANY skills in Kido or Mental Incant, but a Hakuda user will need the skill or another martial art.

[Amagai Kuchiki]

Using Hakuda techniques that do not list reiatsu costs or do not specify that they cost reiatsu, does not take reiatsu.

Col's analysis is relatively correct.

[Impossible]

But what about the Kido fusion on Mental incantation though?

[Kyomei Kuchiki]

Just because you can fire two techniques by mixing the incantation doesn't mean that they are fused into 1 technique in the same way Kidou fusion does

[Impossible]

What's the difference then?