A Concern.

[Zeich Yajuu]

So I've said something about this a few times in the actual chatbox, and have spoken to more than one mod about this, but since very little is getting done I thought that I'd speak up and make a point.

First off, this is for the Vizard Inner Hollow fight, which I can understand is a lower priority, given that we have all of four Vizard Hopefuls and only one who is at the point of the fight while the other two are still low-ranked. This is primarily a personal matter obviously, as my character Zeich is the only one at the point where this is relevant, but it is also a matter that will need to be resolved in the future for the other three and any who many come after them.

The issue is that with our current system, our handling of the Inner Hollow fight requires a moderator to handle it, and one who is not a part of the system, such as Kyomei with Grodd. That leaves Zou, Kento, RC, and White. Here's where the problems come in. For Zou, either his work keeps him very busy, internet sucks there, or a combination of both (I've heard mixed reports). For Kento, posts come very infrequently, but again this is due to RL, which takes precedence over this site. RC is still a fairly new mod, and doesn't seem to have a lot of experience in this particular area (I mean as a thread lead period, not necessarily a fight that has been done all of... once). White is on very infrequently as well.

So what this leaves me with is a bottleneck that I can't move forward on because we do not have a moderator who can handle this fight in a reasonable amount of time. Because there has to be a "set way" to overcome the Inner Hollow, Kyo can't do the fight, lest the secret get spoiled for him. Because of RL, Kento and Zou are not available. Etc etc. So I want to propose few ideas, something that can allow me to actually move forward, instead of having three years of work stopped cold by the fact that none of the staff can take on this thread in a reasonable time limit. And hopefully when the others get to this point they won't get stopped in their tracks either, though if I make it that far I'd probably handle it myself.

So, proposals to improve this situation:

1) Do not have a set "secret" for the thread, but rather make it a standard fight. With 2x stat superiorities and access to the user's Shikai/Bankai, the Inner Hollow fight is difficult enough without an additional hidden "requirement" on top of it. Any mod can run this fight, and it would open it up even for those who have their own Vizards.

2) For those who don't want to wait, allow a cinematic combat thread to be made. Make a certain requirement on minimum length and character development, and then simply have it graded once the cinematic is done. This is the preferred choice of my two proposals, as who knows the Inner Hollow better than the player themselves? This allows for a very strong and meaningful thread as compared to a simple PVP led by someone who does not fully understand the secondary character you've developed throughout your Vizard's growth.

I apologize if this comes off as a confrontational thread, but after waiting for nearly two months to do this fight, since the beginning of January, it's starting to get wearing. Zeich is my main character that I have put a lot of work into, and now that I can't move him forward at all, it has completely stagnated my desire to write. I like my other characters, but this is my main by a long shot, and I'd really like to be able to use him again, as opposed to leaving him in this limbo.

[Deleted]

+1

Making anyone wait two months to start a thread that's required is ridiculous.

[Deleted]

I am for both options, though I lean towards the second on. I have enough faith that Z would do an excellent job with a cinematic battle. Plus, having to wait this long for your Final Battle is a little ridiculous.

[Kyomei Kuchiki]

The only issue I see with proposal 2 is there is no "death risk" that is a feature of the inner hollow fight. Proposal 1 seems overall better from a mechanics standpoint, even though proposal 2 does have the better character development component to it

[Zeich Yajuu]

I'd like to argue that the death risk is really a poor drawback, honestly. I mean look at our list of character deaths in general that were not owner-orchestrated. Besides the death penalty, Vizards are expected to go through a long series of leveling, battling, and character development to even get to the fight, and then on top of that they're suddenly forced to discover a "secret" for winning to avoid having all that work just canceled out. I know I've said that I'd move on, but frankly if Zeich were to die to this fight that might be the end of my time here. Three years thrown away in one thread is ridiculous.

[Kazura Uzaki]

It is explained in the Vizard Path that you accept that risk when you create a Vizard to begin with, but I can understand your concern. The "secret" for winning, to my knowledge, was a potential extra option, not the only option. As far as I know, simply winning through sheer skill was another option. We've not had an Inner Hollow fight in years, so they may be due for a revamp. White, Kento, and I can talk about it when we get a chance. For now, I'll start your fight, since I know Zeich and the Shadow better than Kento or White do. Also, I'm more active since I'm not in college right now or studying for med school.

[Takashi Kuchiki]

I see this from both sides. Kyomei is correct in the fact that DE should be maintained. Vizard seems to be synonymous with the DE high rewards-esq mentality. I would imagine this is to make things more 'real' for the player since the chance exists. Z is also quite correct. With our new influx of resident Vizards, I think it best to think through some alternative ways. With that said, I think option 1 is the best. I'd like to discuss this further as well with the others, Z included.

[Zeich Yajuu]

So only Vizards have to deal with the "real" penalty? Other races, even the strong ones such as Akki, only have to go through the difficulty of applying; after that point, the only risk of DE is not a risk at all, as we have had a very, very low number of character deaths aside from those that the creators choose to take.

So Vizards are penalized as the only ones at true risk for the "death penalty" for what, getting x2 stats from their mask for 3-11 posts? Versus the passive skin-defenses of Hierro or Blut, the high level of power and OP that Akki are allowed to get, the insane SP of Kenpachi for a rather minor penalty? While I understand that Vizards aren't liked by Zou for just being a power target and that was where the initial system came in, things have changed since then. Many more races or divisions have become on-par or even better than Vizards, and most for far less requirements.

Yes, I knew when taking this path that there was the risk of death at the end. For the last three years, however, I have seen how cheap "DE" is. How many DE threads end in a player death? Next to none, because people want to "be polite" and "not waste another's work". So why are Vizards the only ones who are forced to stick to this constriction? If Death Enabled isn't going to be enforced aside from being a bonus to rewards at the end of the thread, why did we bother changing the rules for it? Even the high-level threads, such as Sozen v. Kuroi, where the desire to kill the other was very real, nothing came of it when it very well could have.

That is why this whole "do it this way or lose your work" frustrates me. Nowhere else, except on this path, is such a penalty enforced. That is why I would like to see one system or the other revamped; the risk of death should be more all-encompassing, or it should simply be removed.

[Deleted]

I'm going to go ahead and remind people that the penalties of a Death Enabled thread was once ignored though simple complaining and pointing fingers. DE still needs some reworking, if not to be simply removed at all aside from special threads such as Canons...though nobody tries to kill anybody anymore. But, this thread wasn't supposed to be discussing DE, rather the Vizard Fights. See, Z is right. Out of all of the races on the site, especially the arguably OP ones, Vizards are the only ones who have to take such a massive risk to get their full power. The only ones that come close to that level of danger are Failures, in my opinion.

But what I really want to add is that during the years I have been on this site, you know what it always was that pushed people away from being Vizard? It wasn't the risk of the character dying, it was the work required to get to the fight. Zous issue with Vizards was that he was scared the site would be overrun with Ichigo-wannabes, but we never were. The amount of work and uniqueness required for a Vizard was what pushed people away, not the risk of the character dying. Z is a active member of the site, he's even DM'd multiple threads, and it's still taken him three years to get Zeich to this point. There has to be some other way of handling the battle, rather than a loss being a certain death.

I suggested a long time ago that the roleplayer could chose to recreate the Vizard as a unique Hollow, being able to play as the Hollowfied Character...but that idea never took off and I doubt it ever will. To end this though, the site has changed. It's matured. We hold Vizards to such a high level that we wont have a wannabe-Ichigo. The members, chat, do an especially good job pushing people away from the idea of playing Vizards. As I said, it's never seemed to be the risk of death that's pushed people away, it's just been the work required to be put into it.

So, yeah, my vote is for some change to the battle. Something that wont cost Z his beloved character if he loses.

[Zeich Yajuu]

Once more, I would like to bump this thread and resume the discussion towards making this process into a cinematic as an option, even if it requires stricter levels for an approved success. Four months now since I have been able to take on the Inner Hollow, and my thread has gone all of five posts within a month. I respect that Kyomei is busy with real life, and this is in no way a jab at him. But as I am once again stuck in limbo, unable to use my primary character, I would like to renew the appeal to create a cinematic version of the fight for situations in which moderators are not available.

If it were only a month, I can understand, but our staff support has been extremely light of late, and because of this it is once more becoming a point of frustration. Four months to be able to use my character that I've worked on for three years is again becoming ridiculous. Please take the time to reconsider, or at least provide an option for when moderators are not available. Even if it simply means having a non-staff member take on the role of running the Inner Hollow fight, that would be acceptable.

I feel, however, that could also be an exception in my case, rather than a constant. For others, as a staff member and a Vizard-to-be, I can run other Inner Hollow threads, so that is no problem. But I feel like I am once again stuck in a rut because while I am able to provide this for others, I cannot do it for myself. So again, if there is a way to provide an alternate method, even as a temporary solution, let us please consider a way to make this work.