Issue

[Shade Kawada]

We seem to be having an issue regarding this thread. I'd appreciate it if an admin stepped in and gave his judgement. My argument is that Jin never stated in a previous post that he was wearing Hitze like armor and it suddenly just appeared there in the post when he needed it to.

My second argument is that Cierro's swing is too fast to be effected by Jin's heat since I'm sure the laws of thermodynamics come into play here. Heat is transferred over time gradually and not instantaneously. Never in Jin's application did he state Hitze can be used as an armor that melts everything that comes into contact with it.

My third argument regarding this "armor" is that it only seemed to come into existence as Cierro was slashing him. The espada was grabbing Jin's wrist two whole posts before Jin even mentioned this "armor" Jin had an opportunity to bring up that Cierro's hand would be burned but he didn't, why? Because he just came up with this "armor" ability once his initial defense failed.

By this logic, Jin would neither have time to activate the armor nor would the armor do much. Here's the thread, thank you.

rpforumbleach.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=dvt3&thread=2624&page=1

[Jin Yamada]

Not "we". Only you because you're completely close-minded to anyone's argument but your own. I explained everything completely in the post. It isn't "armor" persay. Please don't tell me, the creator, about my own ability. I explained everything in that post regarding Hitze and why it was said that the blade had to cut through Hitze first before getting to Jin.

As for your thermodynamics argument, the blade is of inferior reiatsu strength trying to cut through a being of superior reiatsu strength to get to Jin. Hitze is a being made up of reiatsu and heat. Forget about the heat for now. How can you cut through something that has more reiatsu strength than you? There will be repercussions for such an action. There's also a law for that. "Every action calls for an equal and opposite reaction." In this case, attempting to cut through a being of superior reiatsu strength resulted in the blade being melted.

Of course the ability wasn't mentioned in the application because when it was made, mastery over Hitze hadn't been attained. Character's develop over time sir. In this case, the development wasn't noted down in the application because time wouldn't allow me to make a revamp. Again, it isn't necessarily "armor". Think of it as Jin's own reiatsu covering him in the form of the heat from his doll. It was at low intensity when Cierro approached Jin, but that doesn't mean the actual doll still isn't there. I'll say this. Doll's have their own personality and mind. Their main goal is to serve and protect the master. If it senses danger, and it's surrounding it's master in such a way, it'll take action to prevent the master from being harmed. Jin may not have sensed the danger, but the doll did and acted accordingly.

Also, I did ask an Admin before I posted it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it at all. I asked the Ad-Gin himself. So stop complaining. He agreed that the manipulation of the doll's personality is completely legit in this case in order to stop an attack of such inferior reiatsu strength.

[Andrea Follia 縁]

So. . . issue resolved.

[Shade Kawada]

I'd like Zou to take a look at it regardless. I'm doing the right thing by posting it here. If you're so sure of yourself then just sit back and let Zou come to a conclusion and then we can continue. Don't simply get mad at me for following the proper procedures... First of all, not even Hitze would be able to sense Cierro's swing. Plus the fact he's made up of gas means that regardless of reiatsu strength Cierro's swing would pass through him. I don't understand how Jin can go from having a non-harmful level of heat surrounding him when Cierro was grabbing his wrist, to having a level of heat that melts steel before Cierro could even cut him. Jin wouldn't realize what happened until he'd already been cut, and neither would Hitze.

Secondly you say,

"How can you cut through something that has more reiatsu strength than you? There will be repercussions for such an action. There's also a law for that. "Every action calls for an equal and opposite reaction." In this case, attempting to cut through a being of superior reiatsu strength resulted in the blade being melted."

Alright, let's get this straight... Reiatsu strength determines cutting power and the strength of kidou and the like. Only for arrancar does it determine the level of their hierro. A bount could have a reiatsu strength of 10,000 and a spiritual pressure of 5 and Cierro could cut him easily. Jin's Spiritual pressure is 340, 10 points shy of being able to take Cierro's blade strikes and delivering any type of cutback effect. What this proves is that Cierro CAN in fact cut through Hitze even if his reiatsu strength is superior. (I don't even know why I have to prove this considering the doll is a cloud of gas and heat... Last time I checked gas and heat were completely and utterly permeable)

Thirdly, you've stated before that reiatsu strength does not determine how hot Hitze's attacks are because... if I remember correctly in Jin's fight with Ranmyaku, when Jin split off into a ton of different clones, his reiatsu strength was severely hindered yet Ranmyaku took just as much damage from Hitze as if he was normal temperature.

"An explosion of raw heat energy just like the last time. However, there would be no shunpoing out of this one. The heat would hit him full and fry his body completely. Plus, spiritual pressure and reiatsu strength wouldn't be a determining factor with this one."

That's a tidbit from one of your posts in regards to hitting Ranmyaku with one of Hitze's attacks. So if the temperature of Hitze's attacks doesn't get weaker with weaker reiatsu strength we can determine that the temperature doesn't grow with stronger reiatsu strength.

This proves that Hitze is always at a constant temperature depending solely on how much he's spread out, and his heat affects everything the same. I've said before that Cierro's blade would not be effected because of the short amount of time it was inside Hitze's heat. Your argument against that was simply that your reiatsu strength was higher. I've proven that Hitze's heat affects everything the same regardless of reiatsu strength or spiritual pressure.

quod erat demonstrandum...

[Jin Yamada]

You're a whiner and I'll be straight up about that. I already talked to the Ad-Gin about the post before it was posted. You can't have your way with everything by complaining, but hey I ain't mad yo! I already made my points. I never said anything about hierro or cutback. It's a little sad to be honest that such a simple concept can't be understood.

Also, your last quote has no significance in this argument. But of course, someone like you wouldn't realize that.

[Shade Kawada]

If it's as you say then what's the big deal about letting him read the fight over and getting the whole picture and coming to a final judgement? Coaches don't get mad when the other coach challenges a play in the NFL. (Yes, I just related this to football. )

[Jin Yamada]

There is no big deal. I'm just trying to prevent you from wasting your time, but obviously I can see that you like to do that. By having him go over something I went over with him already, you're just adding more stress on his plate, but of course, someone like you only cares about himself. Not others. Oh, and as for your last quote, that was in regards to raw heat energy, not attacks from Jin that are fueled by reiatsu or a being made up of heat and...there's that word again reiatsu. But again, someone like you wouldn't understand the simple mechanics behind my post. So I totally understand why you're continuing to argue. It's all good yo!

[Shade Kawada]

Oh, and I am not whining... I am complaining... do you want to hear whining? THIIIIIS IS WHINIIIIING! UUUGGGHHHH THE ARENA IS TOO SMALL!!! CAN'T IT BE ANY BIGGER, AND UUUUUUUUUGGGGHHHHH WHY DO I HAVE TO FIGHT JIN IN THE FIRST ROUND?!? AND WHY IS YOUR RP STYLE SO FULL OF HOLES?!?! IT'S SO ANNOYING!!! AND WHY AREN'T YOU GOING TO ALLOW CIERRO ONE HIT BEFORE HE THROWS THE MATCH?!? IT'S NOT FAIR!!!

SPOILER: Click to show

[Zou ۞]

Yeah, I had a conclusion four posts before the end of this thread. RIGHT, lemme straighten this out.

This may or may not be quick, but it'll be pretty nice for you guys. You'll get everything you need, I hope.

Anyway! First, what NEITHER OF YOU realized, which surprises me, is that Hitze can sense Cierro. Hitze's body is heat, essentially meaning that since Cierro's surrounded by this heat, Hitze and Cierro are touching. Hitze can sense Cierro's true reiatsu. Though this would be valid in saying Hitze could respond as a result of this, I don't think Jazz mentioned it in his post. I have no idea since I didn't read it.

Anyway, next off! It's not that reiatsu strength increases the heat. It's that it allows it to deliver faster effect. With a stronger power, Hitze should be able to increase temperature faster, cover more ground, and make a bigger attack when blasting stuff. It should be noted that the heat probably wouldn't have any effect on the blade if Cierro had superior reiatsu strength, even if it's really hot. The difference would be similar to a shield of reiatsu around Cierro's scimitar. But, more importantly, the dispersal is for affecting the enemy directly. Technically, to get such a fast melting effect, Hitze needs to focus. This means it needs to get smaller (no longer covering the 100 yard field entirely) and focus more on the blade. Hitze heats up that way. By condensing smaller, its temperature increases. Across even 100 yards, given time Hitze is guaranteed to get to Cierro. His skin will start to sunburn more or less, and his insides will cook. Though, this is a matter that happens over time.

The blade itself won't melt so quickly if Hitze is dispersed over the 100 yards. Jin can indeed melt it that quickly if Hitze condenses to a much smaller area. Assuming Jin did that, it's valid. If it stayed over the 100 yard dispersal, won't work to melt it like that. Cierro would be dead too if the heat could get that intense that quickly. Metal melts at over 3000 degrees farenheit, believe it or not. At a very small concentration, Hitze should be able to reach this, yes? But, at a large concentration, impossible. When too dispersed, not even a tenth of that will be reached. Cierro would practically be cremated if the whole area was that temperature.

So, if Hitze shrunk in size for that blade, it's valid. If not, then the blade wouldn't melt quickly like that. Again, I have NOT read many of the posts for that thread. I am behind the times.

Right, I THINK that should clear you guys up. More or less. It should be noted that a smaller concentration would also evaporate the blood itself if concentrated enough, and assuming the blade were to succeed in its goal.

[Shade Kawada]

Since Hitze was not spread out through the field at the time when Cierro grabbed Jin's wrist, and Hitze was not focusing on the sword but rather simply surrounding Jin, the sword would not melt in the miniscule amount of time when his blade entered Hitze. It's your post Jin. I plan to withdraw from the fight next post because I don't think Cierro can pull out a win.

[Jin Yamada]

You should edit first.

Oct 21, 2011 19:26:32 GMT -5 Zou ۞ said:

Jin can indeed melt it that quickly if Hitze condenses to a much smaller area. Assuming Jin did that, it's valid.

I did indeed do that, so that means no cut. Surrounding Jin is still Hitze being concentrated around Jin's body because it's concentrated to a smaller area, which this next quote proves.

Oct 20, 2011 1:58:09 GMT -5 Jin Yamada said:

Jin hadn't deactivated his doll. He had only confined it's heat to a smaller area; his body.

If you choose not to edit the stab hitting(though you should since Hitze will sense Cierro through the heat from him touching Jin and act accordingly as the Ad-Gin just stated), then that's okay too. Jin can heal himself. However, there's the matter of that blood that needs to be edited.

Oct 21, 2011 19:26:32 GMT -5 Zou ۞ said:

It should be noted that a smaller concentration would also evaporate the blood itself if concentrated enough, and assuming the blade were to succeed in its goal.

That means no blood. You were just going to try to get memories and then drop out. I know.

[Cierro Muerte]

Okay, so Jin will be hit, the blood will evaporate, and the fight will continue as normal. Deal?

[Jin Yamada]

Yeah, if that floats your boat.

[Cierro Muerte]

Seems like we can't go three posts without something else coming up. As requested, here is my compilation for you to take a look at Zou.

[Jin Yamada]

Why only post where I gave 3 posts? What about the one before that? Before that, I stated specifically the effects that the heat was supposed to cause as soon as the heat spread into the arena. Post your reaction post to me saying that. Because you downplayed, I decided to give a time limit, and rather than giving some outrageous OP limit, I gave one that I thought was fair. Even if you did have 3 posts (which technically you didn't since all you had Cierro do was sweat when I specifically said he'd instantly feel the specific effects I listed when the heat first spread out) you used up all your stamina and time in your post and I confirmed this with Sasuke already. Jin's reiatsu strength is more than double that of Cierro's. Your belief that it takes time for a warm-blooded creature to heat up is B.S. This is basic elementary science.

A warm-blooded creature would heat up even faster, and given that this forum's system has the rate that Hitze's heat affects an opponent being based on reiatsu strength, the heat would affect him even faster because of the large reiatsu strength difference. So yes, given that there is such a huge gap in reiatsu strength, that will increase the rate at which Cierro would absorb the heat, and also given the fact that he tried to run at his top speed in any kind of heat over 100 degrees Fahrenheit for over 100 yards, his stamina would be sapped even further. So therefore, no, you wouldn't have been able to do what you did.

"Significant physical exertion on a very hot day can generate heat beyond a healthy body's ability to cool itself, because the heat and humidity of the environment reduce the efficiency of the body's normal cooling mechanisms." -Wikipedia on Hyperthermia

Yeah, I think running across 100 yards at top speed is significant physical exertion. You didn't take in effect the increased rate of effect as a result of the large gap in reiatsu strength. I only gave three posts because of your great downplaying of the effects of the heat. I should have stated a temperature, but I assumed that you'd be intelligent enough to realize that in order for me to say that those effects occur instantly, that must mean that the temperature is pretty high. Not just enough to "make someone sweat." I admit that I was at fault there, but that still didn't excuse the fact that you attempted to exploit that loophole rather than asking about it.