The Roughneck Type

[Deleted]

Type: Roughneck

Description: They go by many names. Delinquents, thugs, punks, hard heads, whatever kind of name you give to the prideful, stubborn, son of a bitch that just won't stop beating their head against a wall to get things done. A roughneck is someone set in their ways. They want to do things their way and damned be those who want to tell them otherwise. These are your sort of characters that want to punch their problems away, but what makes them stand out is their incredible ability to stay in a fight. They don't give up.

Advantage:

Rank 1: 25% to either Strength or Spiritual Pressure (100 would be 125). 50% increase to the other stat (100 would be 150).

Rank 2: 25% increase to either Strength or Spiritual Pressure (100 would be 125). 75% increase to the other stat (100 would be 175).

Rank 3: 50% increase to either Strength of Spiritual Pressure (100 would be 150). 100% increase to the other stat (100 would be 200).

Rank 4: 75% increase to either Strength or Spiritual Pressure (100 would be 175). 125% increase to the other stat (100 would be 225).


Disadvantage:

All Levels: Roughnecks cannot acquire Techniques higher than their current Class. Any Techniques that are higher than their current Class are not available until they are the proper Class.

Rank 1: 30% decrease to one Physical Stat or one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 70). Pick either Senses or Instinct and cut it by 25% (100 would be 75).

Rank 2: 40% decrease to one Physical Stat or one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 60). Pick either Senses or Instinct and cut it by 25% (100 would be 75).

Rank 3: 50% decrease to one Physical Stat or one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 50). Either pick the Sensory stat that is reduced by 25% and now reduce it by 50% or pick the other other stat and reduce it by 25%.

Rank 4: 50% decrease to one Physical Stat or one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 50). Either pick the Sensory stat that is reduced by 25% and now reduce it by 50% or pick the other other stat and reduce it by 25%.

Race Restrictions: Available to All Races.

Initial Weapons: One Starting Weapon (i.e. one Zanpakutō, one Doll, etc.)

[Aramis Tezuka]

For what it's worth, I like this type suggestion. Though to be fair that may be because I've been reconsidering Amare's build lately, and this type is ironically exactly what I'm looking for for him.

Overall, while I'd argue it looks a LITTLE bit lopsided in favor of the benefits (only one stat cut, to two stat buffs), the buffs themselves are fairly minor, which is not a bad thing. We don't have a lot of low-risk/low-reward types and so this could be an interesting experiment.

[Deleted]

Oh wow I had forgotten about this type.

[Beast]

I'm also a big fan of this technique, but I agree that it feels a bit lopsided towards the benefits. Maybe a ES/HE cut?

[Zeich Yajuu]

Two thoughts, based on the type description: first, invert the buffs so Strength > SpPr or else put them roughly equal. Reason being is that despite this being a type that likes to "punch its problems away" it seems to lean spiritually, which would make this a Type focused primarily on Releases, which seems contrary to its actual focus. Suggestion would be to equalize them both at 50/75/100/125% (600/700/800/900 OS cap, let's you hit milestones like Flex defense, etc).

Second, I recommend a Senses or Instinct cut as the second cut. If they're so focused on breaking through their goal, never giving up, etc, you'd expect them to at least partially tunnel-vision.

[Aramis Tezuka]

Feb 7, 2018 16:14:24 GMT -5 Zeich Yajuu said:

Two thoughts, based on the type description: first, invert the buffs so Strength > SpPr or else put them roughly equal. Reason being is that despite this being a type that likes to "punch its problems away" it seems to lean spiritually, which would make this a Type focused primarily on Releases, which seems contrary to its actual focus. Suggestion would be to equalize them both at 50/75/100/125% (600/700/800/900 OS cap, let's you hit milestones like Flex defense, etc).

Second, I recommend a Senses or Instinct cut as the second cut. If they're so focused on breaking through their goal, never giving up, etc, you'd expect them to at least partially tunnel-vision.

Partially disagree with this. Not entirely, you raise some good points, but while I certainly see your argument with Strength, the same could be said of SpPr, providing reiatsu reserves to keep using techniques for extended timeframes to also represent that inexhaustible stamina. I'd suggest instead, it be an optional set-up between the two, worded possibly as: "Increase either Spirit Pressure or Strength by X and the other by Y" allowing the person making the character to be able to decide which they'd rather go with.

Although I'd agree with the idea of cutting Senses or Instinct, though I'd defend it being a fairly minor cut, on account of A. the gains being fairly minor in general (relative to other types of its style anyways, most dual boost types would hit 100% increase in BOTH stats at Rank 3), and B. because of the type already having the Technique drawback. 25-30% seems fair imho.

[Deleted]

I'm glad to see that this type has gotten both a lot of sudden attention and general approval. So onto what I changed. What Col said to Z was the same thing I was going to say. The comparison Edge Jelly made to Yusuke was spot on. The higher Spiritual Pressure boost is because "but what makes them stand out is their incredible ability to stay in a fight. They don't give up." bit. Spiritual Pressure is, basically, supposed to represent the fact they can fight for a long time.

So, I took Col's suggestion and decided to allow the choice to either give the big boost to Strength or Spiritual Pressure. I preferred to keep the small boost to Strength, but eh whatever. So, I put a drawback in for a 25% decrease to either Senses or Instinct. I didn't pick 30% because I also locked Energy Sensory at 50. Maybe you guys don't agree with that but feel free to to share your thoughts on that. Anything else this type needs? Does it need a "you can't use these skills" sort of drawback or anything?

I also added some code to make it look prettier.

[Kazura Uzaki]

Rank 4 has a typo in it. The way it says now, you could boost SpPr twice.

[Deleted]

T-thanks

[Amare Mori]

I'm gonna bump this type up for further discussion. ESPECIALLY with the somewhat controversial Soldier V2 being introduced, I think that could give a lot more grounds to discussing this type. I haven't seen much rejection of this type after the proposed changes, so I'm curious what general opinion is now.

[Kyomei Kuchiki]

I do really like this type. The only concern I have is people circumventing the TTP drawback by switching into this type. But also requiring people to pay thousands of TTP to switch into the type makes it unappealing. That is, if they already have a good long tech list.

[Deleted]

I'm not really sure how you would stop somewthing like that from happening. That seems more like a individual member sort of problem. I'd be "fine" with, say, a 500 TTP price to switch to the type...but that's certainly a extreme solution to a small problem.

Edit: Okay, so I think i have an answer. Make this a Type that can only be switched into from Non-Typed. That immediately cuts out the number of stockpiling that could happen. But, because of how many people are interested in this type, let people who want this Type switch over during a small window period before locking it to Non-Typed's.

[Ranth]

Doing that, I feel, would run the risk of making this type really unappealing for new characters and instead cater only to veteran characters who are essentially full build already and just swapping in to enjoy the combination of stat boosts whilst more or less shrugging off the TTP drawback.

If an existing character really wants the type, then they should have to calculate the 'roughneck cost' of their existing techniques and remove/ be forbidden from using for any combination of techniques of their choice that they couldn't have afforded to learn if they had been a roughneck from the start. Alternatively, make a new character and experience the type in all its rugged glory

I don't think it's a good precedent to set in which we make a type with a specific criteria and play-style only to allow everybody and their dog to swap in because it's shiny and new. This is a unique case of course, as I don't think any other type has such a potential for abuse via type swapping, which is why I believe it should be treated as such.

[Valentin Acciai]

Hmm... how about having them calculate a negative TTP value based on their techs until they grind enough to be in the positive zone to make purchases again? possibly locking any existing techs to proficient at maximum in the meanwhile.

[Deleted]

How about I just remove the TTP Drawback? Going into TTP debt is the complete opposite of making the type appealing.