Rules of Engagement: Dealing With a Mod
Jun 12, 2015 19:55:20 GMT -5
Douma and Hotaru Kuchiki-Masurao like this
Post by Amagai Kuchiki on Jun 12, 2015 19:55:20 GMT -5
This post won’t be organized perfectly. Things will be clumped together based on generalized groupings, but I can’t promise that everything is going to neatly flow from one thing to another.
Before we get started: this post isn’t the place to discuss ideas presented here. If you have a question or response to the post that you think needs to be heard, do so in cbox, or in a PM. But I don’t want this post to be derailed. Also, this post applies to me. I do not speak for the other mods, they might have other preferences of how they want to be treated that differ from mine. Finally, this post isn’t trying to be a conversation ender, it’s mostly just a way for me to express my thoughts in a format better than cbox arguments, nor is it meant to be personal. If you did things that this post says aren’t cool, that isn’t me calling you out. Just reflect on your actions, and move on.
1) Justifying balancing decisions
This first point is probably the absolute biggest one, and makes up the majority of the arguments I have on cbox. Basically, when examining balance on this site, there are three main examples that people use, that I’ve rebutted time and time again, and honestly would rather not have to explain again. If you’re discussing balance with me, please don’t use any of these arguments.
a) Arguing Using Outliers in Bleach: Simply put, although this site and RP is based off of Bleach, and heavily influenced by Bleach, and tries it’s best to match up with Bleach, sometimes Kubo does things that would never be balance able within the rules of the site. Ishida firing 1,200 arrows consecutively is a great example. Other times, characters show up, and do something that’s way above anything that they’ve ever done before, and never repeat that ability. Don’t use these outliers in arguments. I’m not saying that you can’t use canon events as examples, but just be careful about the ones that you select for your argument.
b) Arguing Based On Old Gradings: The balance of this site is in flux, as we try to adapt and improve the site by being careful about what we pass. Although there should almost never be a highly radical shift (I can’t think of a circumstance where I’d pass a character/technique one month, and totally reject it the next), there is an expiration date on balance. If a grading happened more than a year ago/from before I joined the site/before I was a mod, either time, then don’t use it to justify your character being strong or broken. I’ve passed things in the past I will no longer pass today, and I’m sure in the future I’d be hesitant to pass things I’ve passed within the past month. Recognize that balance changes: some things we allow to occur more often, some things we have to crack down on. It isn’t personal, so don’t get offended when it happens.
c) Arguing Based On Legacy/Cinematic Characters: This is distinctly different from the last one, in the sense that we still have semi-active characters who have abilities that are ludicrously powerful. However, most of the time, it’s important for these characters to be powerful, since they are largely used for Cinematic purposes, and for the sake of constructing interesting stories. Please, please, please don’t claim that because these characters exist, your character should be allowed to have that level of power. Please don’t compare yourself to characters that were made 2+ years ago. If those characters were used actively against non legacy characters, the creators would eventually balance them according to modern balance standards (see Adalo). Also, on a similar note, please don’t balance characters by comparing them to characters that people with more authority than me made. I can’t speak for them, and I don’t want to question their balance decisions because they are more knowledgable about balance than I am as they have more experience. This applies to: the HAMs, Zou, and Royce.
Again, I’m not saying you shouldn’t defend your characters as balanced. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be allowed to question my judgements. I’m just saying, if you do, don’t use those three arguments.
2) What Defines a Rule?
This is something I’ve made clear on individual instances, but I figured I should make it more clear: I play and make rulings using the rules as they are written down. Things that fall outside of that category, I redirect to mods with more experienced, or consult with them, if I feel strongly one way or the other. However, one thing that I’ve mentioned in the chat several times is that I personally disagree with the concept of rules that aren’t written anywhere. Sometimes, individual rulings are complicated, and can be misunderstood and misquoted, especially if the rulings were made years ago. It’s impossible to rely on such rulings, and thus, unless the mod who made the ruling is present, I have to go based on what is written in the rules themselves. If people have a problem with that, it’s not too difficult to get a new rule implemented (just post in the suggestions thing, get the writing correct, and the mods will discuss and add it or reject it), so there’s always that as an option. And again, if another mod corrects me on individual rulings, I’m happy to listen to them and their judgement, but I’m hugely in favor of codifying things rather than letting them remain as official unofficial rules.
3) When To Ask A Mod/How To Treat Rulings?
To quote a few sections from the OOC Rules section of the forum: “If there is a point in a thread with which you disagree….calmly and politely disagree with it. Do not explode….Ask other members or staff for their unbiased opinions….do not argue constantly in threads and try not to be anal about too many details. “Keep in mind that not only are [staff] the people that run the role-play system….they work very hard to ensure fairness…Do not extensively argue with staff” “Do not try to exploit loop holes…do not plan anything that would disrupt RP on this forum in any way…If a staff member prohibits something, they have done it for good reason.”
(Quick side note: I’d highly highly recommend reading through the OOC Rules again. I’ll admit, I failed in some aspects as a Mod because of rules I didn’t know about, and will likely improve now that I’m aware of it. The rules are rather comprehensive, and make it quite clear what type of behavior is and isn’t acceptable, to the point where I probably don’t need to write this, but still.)
So, now that I’ve dropped a ton of text from the OOC Rules, I’d like to clarify my own interpretations of them, and how that applies to interactions with me.
A) In any PvP, if anything goes wrong, TALK TO THE OTHER PERSON FIRST. Then, once you’ve talked to them, if you still have a problem, talk to me. Do not bypass them and go straight to me. Involving a mod should always be something you fall back on, not something you default to. If you are a player that constantly asks me for rulings, and over minor things, know that that might eventually start to reflect poorly on you (although I should make it clear that it takes a lot to get me to that point. No one is at that point yet).
B) It’s totally fine to contest my rulings. I make mistakes, and sometimes people have unique views that change my decisions. However, if I’ve made it clear that I stand firmly on an issue, and our argument has now occupied more than 2 pages of cbox, and it isn’t a constructive discussion, then maybe it’s time for us both to step away from the keyboard. I personally want the best for the site as a whole, and I want things to be balanced as fair as possible. If I think that you are doing something to violate that aspect, and you seem to be unable to convince me otherwise? Maybe accept it. Or at least accept it long enough for us to move on, and revisit the topic later.
C) If I say something is a loophole or an abuse of the system, that is because I’ve come to that conclusion logically and based on other decisions made regarding loopholes. I don’t use the term lightly, and rarely jokingly. Please understand that if I consider something a loophole, that means that you are highly encouraged not to utilize it.
That’s all of it. If you do something that causes me to link you to this post, try to understand what you did wrong, and move on, and avoid repeating it.
Before we get started: this post isn’t the place to discuss ideas presented here. If you have a question or response to the post that you think needs to be heard, do so in cbox, or in a PM. But I don’t want this post to be derailed. Also, this post applies to me. I do not speak for the other mods, they might have other preferences of how they want to be treated that differ from mine. Finally, this post isn’t trying to be a conversation ender, it’s mostly just a way for me to express my thoughts in a format better than cbox arguments, nor is it meant to be personal. If you did things that this post says aren’t cool, that isn’t me calling you out. Just reflect on your actions, and move on.
1) Justifying balancing decisions
This first point is probably the absolute biggest one, and makes up the majority of the arguments I have on cbox. Basically, when examining balance on this site, there are three main examples that people use, that I’ve rebutted time and time again, and honestly would rather not have to explain again. If you’re discussing balance with me, please don’t use any of these arguments.
a) Arguing Using Outliers in Bleach: Simply put, although this site and RP is based off of Bleach, and heavily influenced by Bleach, and tries it’s best to match up with Bleach, sometimes Kubo does things that would never be balance able within the rules of the site. Ishida firing 1,200 arrows consecutively is a great example. Other times, characters show up, and do something that’s way above anything that they’ve ever done before, and never repeat that ability. Don’t use these outliers in arguments. I’m not saying that you can’t use canon events as examples, but just be careful about the ones that you select for your argument.
b) Arguing Based On Old Gradings: The balance of this site is in flux, as we try to adapt and improve the site by being careful about what we pass. Although there should almost never be a highly radical shift (I can’t think of a circumstance where I’d pass a character/technique one month, and totally reject it the next), there is an expiration date on balance. If a grading happened more than a year ago/from before I joined the site/before I was a mod, either time, then don’t use it to justify your character being strong or broken. I’ve passed things in the past I will no longer pass today, and I’m sure in the future I’d be hesitant to pass things I’ve passed within the past month. Recognize that balance changes: some things we allow to occur more often, some things we have to crack down on. It isn’t personal, so don’t get offended when it happens.
c) Arguing Based On Legacy/Cinematic Characters: This is distinctly different from the last one, in the sense that we still have semi-active characters who have abilities that are ludicrously powerful. However, most of the time, it’s important for these characters to be powerful, since they are largely used for Cinematic purposes, and for the sake of constructing interesting stories. Please, please, please don’t claim that because these characters exist, your character should be allowed to have that level of power. Please don’t compare yourself to characters that were made 2+ years ago. If those characters were used actively against non legacy characters, the creators would eventually balance them according to modern balance standards (see Adalo). Also, on a similar note, please don’t balance characters by comparing them to characters that people with more authority than me made. I can’t speak for them, and I don’t want to question their balance decisions because they are more knowledgable about balance than I am as they have more experience. This applies to: the HAMs, Zou, and Royce.
Again, I’m not saying you shouldn’t defend your characters as balanced. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be allowed to question my judgements. I’m just saying, if you do, don’t use those three arguments.
2) What Defines a Rule?
This is something I’ve made clear on individual instances, but I figured I should make it more clear: I play and make rulings using the rules as they are written down. Things that fall outside of that category, I redirect to mods with more experienced, or consult with them, if I feel strongly one way or the other. However, one thing that I’ve mentioned in the chat several times is that I personally disagree with the concept of rules that aren’t written anywhere. Sometimes, individual rulings are complicated, and can be misunderstood and misquoted, especially if the rulings were made years ago. It’s impossible to rely on such rulings, and thus, unless the mod who made the ruling is present, I have to go based on what is written in the rules themselves. If people have a problem with that, it’s not too difficult to get a new rule implemented (just post in the suggestions thing, get the writing correct, and the mods will discuss and add it or reject it), so there’s always that as an option. And again, if another mod corrects me on individual rulings, I’m happy to listen to them and their judgement, but I’m hugely in favor of codifying things rather than letting them remain as official unofficial rules.
3) When To Ask A Mod/How To Treat Rulings?
To quote a few sections from the OOC Rules section of the forum: “If there is a point in a thread with which you disagree….calmly and politely disagree with it. Do not explode….Ask other members or staff for their unbiased opinions….do not argue constantly in threads and try not to be anal about too many details. “Keep in mind that not only are [staff] the people that run the role-play system….they work very hard to ensure fairness…Do not extensively argue with staff” “Do not try to exploit loop holes…do not plan anything that would disrupt RP on this forum in any way…If a staff member prohibits something, they have done it for good reason.”
(Quick side note: I’d highly highly recommend reading through the OOC Rules again. I’ll admit, I failed in some aspects as a Mod because of rules I didn’t know about, and will likely improve now that I’m aware of it. The rules are rather comprehensive, and make it quite clear what type of behavior is and isn’t acceptable, to the point where I probably don’t need to write this, but still.)
So, now that I’ve dropped a ton of text from the OOC Rules, I’d like to clarify my own interpretations of them, and how that applies to interactions with me.
A) In any PvP, if anything goes wrong, TALK TO THE OTHER PERSON FIRST. Then, once you’ve talked to them, if you still have a problem, talk to me. Do not bypass them and go straight to me. Involving a mod should always be something you fall back on, not something you default to. If you are a player that constantly asks me for rulings, and over minor things, know that that might eventually start to reflect poorly on you (although I should make it clear that it takes a lot to get me to that point. No one is at that point yet).
B) It’s totally fine to contest my rulings. I make mistakes, and sometimes people have unique views that change my decisions. However, if I’ve made it clear that I stand firmly on an issue, and our argument has now occupied more than 2 pages of cbox, and it isn’t a constructive discussion, then maybe it’s time for us both to step away from the keyboard. I personally want the best for the site as a whole, and I want things to be balanced as fair as possible. If I think that you are doing something to violate that aspect, and you seem to be unable to convince me otherwise? Maybe accept it. Or at least accept it long enough for us to move on, and revisit the topic later.
C) If I say something is a loophole or an abuse of the system, that is because I’ve come to that conclusion logically and based on other decisions made regarding loopholes. I don’t use the term lightly, and rarely jokingly. Please understand that if I consider something a loophole, that means that you are highly encouraged not to utilize it.
That’s all of it. If you do something that causes me to link you to this post, try to understand what you did wrong, and move on, and avoid repeating it.