Some issues with SsPv1 and 2/How to fix them

[Eliphalet Kasumi'Oji]

So me and Tima were speaking early this morning and going over our types, why we picked them, etc, etc (both for my Akki, his Saika and my Rogue) when we (Firstly Tima) noticed an issue that brought a lot of questions to the forefront when it comes to the set of Soul Specalist Types.

1st.) How does Reiatsu work with Soul Specalist V1? There is no clause speaking about how Reiatsu is handled for this type when releasing from it's sealed state. It could work either by A. Not increasing the Reiatsu to match the fully-released stats or B. Reiatsu will match the released stats. (I will speak of my opinions later, for now just stating the facts.) This question and answer is extremely important because as of this writing I've found no Ruling and even John didn't know off the top of his head. It's also been implemented in both ways, by different people using the type. So, the short answer is: Literally no one knows.



2nd. While V2 does have a specific clause (listed below in the spoiler)  dictating on how it's Reiatsu acts from sealed to release, it also gives up a lot more freedom (lack of ability of where to place boosted stats, harsher personality restriction and most of all the restriction of a single release) for less overall stats than V1.

SPOILER: Click to show

Note that those with increased Spiritual Pressure have their current Reiatsu increased by the same amount that their Maximum Reiatsu is increased by. This only applies to Spiritual Pressure gained from this Type's bonus, and not through other conversions.

If you haven't spotted (what i think is) the problem here, then let me spell it out. If 2nd version's only advantage is the clause that allows it to regain it's Reiatsu on it's release from sealed state, then this makes V1 effectively useless and completely inferior. This is due to the fact that means V1 would be stuck with the Reiatsu of there SEALED state. Even if you boosted your spiritual stat and thus have a higher base for your SpPr, the fact is we tend to balance with types in mind and (like me for example) have higher Reiatsu cost as a result. This can lead to an EXTREMELY limiting experience. As an example my current Akki would only have 2,500 Reiatsu to use in combat. If i release straight into my final release and use a single skill, i can get off one attack that'll leave me with about 200 or so. 

If i were to use any other release then my upper releases become near unusable. Even worse though is if someone took V1 and used a physical type, thus not boosting there spiritual. This means it would be cut even more, being able to be exceptionally low. There are cases where these people _MIGHT NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO RELEASE. PERIOD._ That is an issue.



Now, lets flip that. What if the clause is a mistake, meant to be on both types and option B. is true in the end, that the Reiatsu matches the fully released stats? Then V2 becomes completely inferior and useless, because it has literally nothing over V1. Since V1 gets 250% (the important part being the percentage) and V2 gets only 3 times, it will ALWAYS be inferior to V1 in terms of stats. But it sacrafices much more, even having more than one release. So no Bankai, only 1 Sasai Oni, etc, etc...and for what? The fact is, no matter which way a ruling lands on this, there is actually a massive balance issue that needs to be addressed and I think it is a relatively simple one. Oh they also get the stats back faster than V1, that is also worth mentioning.



Conclusion/Suggestion:  First, add the clause attached to V2 to V1. They're both versions of the same types and thus should by all logical standpoints, have the same mechanics. This way they're consistent, make sense and Physical types especially don't get completely screwed over, as well as spiritual users. Getting stats back slowly over 3-4 post is hard as it is.

Secondly, increase the stats on V2. They give up _a lot_ in the requirements to use it, not only a very distinct and in some ways debilitating personality change but they just flat out give up any and all releases _except_ one. They deserve to have that 3x stat boost turned into 300% AT THE LEAST. This way they're balanced with each other and give a simple but important choice.

Do you want less stats, more versatility and a less punishing personality drawback? Or do you want more stats, faster regained stats, for ONE release and a HARSH personality penalty? 


Although I think this is the simplest and most logical way to handle the situation, I think it will be obvious after reading this post that one way or another there is an issue and it should be addressed. They are powerful types but they have restrictions and give up things for that power: It doesn't make sense with how they're currently written and being interpreted. Something needs to change. Thanks for the read!

P.S. I know I seem bias here and yes, I am as I use the type. But, I urge anyone reading this to look past that and see this objectively as I have tried to. I legitimately think there is a balance issue that is easily addressed.

~Faded Lich

Edited: Forgot the spoiler. don't post early in the morning kids.

[Wycliff]

So before I say my piece all types are meant to have something that is a drawback to them, there is no such thing as a perfect type nor a type that isn't without it's flaws. The way each type is worded and works is made for balance and fairness.

1: Reiatsu is regained back, it's an unwritten rule that needs clarification, unlike SpPr to RS exchange you aren't raising it past your normal limit you're just returning it to the proper state. Yes it does need to be written in, however it's not that big of a deal. Also not to be rude here, but did you only ask one mod about it and no one else? How about members who actually use the type? Not every mod will know everything about the site so saying literally no one knows is a rather large exaggeration especially when I know that at one point there was a total shit post in voice with a bunch of people about how awesome SSv1 physical bount is because of how safe it would be to play and how they would only need to release one doll get back strength and Reiatsu instantly and then proceed to just stay as a fog cloud till the rest of the stats came back to max.

2: No Sv2 still gets 3x strength 3x sppr and 2x long release and if it's on an arrancar it's 3x RS instead of SpPr. All this on a type that doesn't have rank requirements I don't even need to compare it to any other type at rank one because it hands down beats it in raw stat value boost. The three drawbacks for this type is a personality requirement, one level of release and stats cut while sealed and the last one isn't really a drawback for long. The personality requirement by the way isn't that extreme "Character must be unable to formulate elaborate plans while in their Released form. NO TACTICIANS. Characters of this Type are insane and are prone to make stupid mistakes in battle such as attacking friends or causing self-injury by mistake." It just means you can't be a master tactician, if anything think of kenpachi from bleach, he fits the personality requirements to a T. If you wanted to buff this type then changes would need to be made to make it scale off of ranks which would result in it overall being weaker, however as it stands once someone releases they get 1200 strength and 1200 SpPr with 12000 reiatsu.

Shinigami: Are able to class up their shikai all the way to class 1 .

Rogue: Rogue.... well they're shit out of luck on this one type, but hey there had to be one race that can't work with it right?

Vizard: Can't be this type

Beast-Clan: Can't be this type

Arrancar: Class of release is based off of class of user.

Hollow: Can't be this type

Fullbringer: Can raise primary fullbring to class 1

Bount: Dolls are equivalent to Bount's Class.

Mod Soul: Can't be this type

Quincy: Arrows dictate what sort of class the attack is and with 12000 Reiatsu they won't be running out any time soon

Failures: Can't be this type

Akki: Akki can release their premara at class 1 if wanted.

Nakabakki: Needs clarification given their unique release makeup.

Saika: I don't really know how new Saika work, I thought that they had techs now not release levels so this needs to be clarified

Hason: Can't be used.



That is the release of every race when it comes to this type and except for Rogue's Nakabaki, and Saikai(because i'm not 100% sure how they work now) Every single race that can use this type can release their base release at class one or have a way to have it be class one. This in effect removes the need for a higher level release as for the most part, besides size higher levels of release generally only have higher class going for them.

" There are cases where these people _MIGHT NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO RELEASE. PERIOD._ That is an issue." That is an issue if you don't plan properly with stat distribution. Both soul specialist types are types you go in knowing that in a fight you should always release. If someone at first post can't release due to poor stat distribution that is on them not the type it's self. While on the topic about using release and reiatsu, this is an RP site, it is up to the Rper to balance their reiatsu reserves and know when to go all out or when to be conservative

“Then V2 becomes completely inferior and useless” I would like you to look at Aimo. Who was this type and was around when the site as a whole was at a different meta especially captains, who were much stronger back then. Aimo was a class 2 fraccion that could take on and defeat Captains using this type. Captains who were easily rank 3 and 4, so I highly doubt this is an inferior type or a useless one.


“First, add the clause attached to V2 to V1. They're both versions of the same types and thus should by all logical standpoints, have the same mechanics. This way they're consistent, make sense and Physical types especially don't get completely screwed over, as well as spiritual users. Getting stats back slowly over 3-4 post is hard as it is. “

While yes I agree that the clause does need to be added sadly the logical argument here isn't as clean as you might think, especially when you look at Prodigy v1 vs the v2 the V1 has higher stat boosts in the secondary earlier on and the restrictions on the type are less harsh and aren't mandatory unlike V2 and lets not even get started on how different fighter v1 is to fighter v2. Just because they share the same name doesn't mean both types are held to the same standard. In this case like I said before yes you are correct on the fact that the clause needs to be added in, however only due to an oversight, not because they're suppose to be the same.

Looking at the numbers by the way between V1 and V2 you're talking about rank four V1. A rank four slot isn't something that is easily earned, for most people it's a hard task that takes a lot of time and effort, that and unlike ranks 3-1 they are very limited meaning the number of people actually reaching it on a V1 will be extremely limited. So for all the hard work for them to only be 50% stronger is fair, especially as I've said before V2 doesn't care about rank requirements.

Also if you removed the personality requirement off of this type it becomes down right busted for arrancar and would be used exclusively by them without any major drawbacks. Given that their release would last for 16 posts, they would have unlimited reiatsu and down right insane amounts of both strength and RS making it the ideal type for them that would be abusable by every single arrancar no matter what rank, which isn't balanced in the least bit. One final thing to note SSV2 isn't staff made, it was made by Kid, a former Rper of the site and the person who made Aimo and at the time of creation the type was made like that so it wouldn't be broken.


In summery, yes a clarification needs to be made, but this wasn't an issue if you asked people who use the type and no SSV2 doesn't need buffs it is perfectly fine where it's at, these are both nitch types they aren't suppose to be easy types to have characters with given how strong they become.

Faust A SSV1 type user who worked his way up from class 8 using this type without issue.

[Eliphalet Kasumi'Oji]

Jun 26, 2018 5:51:04 GMT -5 Wycliff said:

So before I say my piece all types are meant to have something that is a drawback to them, there is no such thing as a perfect type nor a type that isn't without it's flaws. The way each type is worded and works is made for balance and fairness.

1: Reiatsu is regained back, it's an unwritten rule that needs clarification, unlike SpPr to RS exchange you aren't raising it past your normal limit you're just returning it to the proper state. Yes it does need to be written in, however it's not that big of a deal. Also not to be rude here, but did you only ask one mod about it and no one else? How about members who actually use the type? Not every mod will know everything about the site so saying literally no one knows is a rather large exaggeration especially when I know that at one point there was a total shit post in voice with a bunch of people about how awesome SSv1 physical bount is because of how safe it would be to play and how they would only need to release one doll get back strength and Reiatsu instantly and then proceed to just stay as a fog cloud till the rest of the stats came back to max.

2: No Sv2 still gets 3x strength 3x sppr and 2x long release and if it's on an arrancar it's 3x RS instead of SpPr. All this on a type that doesn't have rank requirements I don't even need to compare it to any other type at rank one because it hands down beats it in raw stat value boost. The three drawbacks for this type is a personality requirement, one level of release and stats cut while sealed and the last one isn't really a drawback for long. The personality requirement by the way isn't that extreme "Character must be unable to formulate elaborate plans while in their Released form. NO TACTICIANS. Characters of this Type are insane and are prone to make stupid mistakes in battle such as attacking friends or causing self-injury by mistake." It just means you can't be a master tactician, if anything think of kenpachi from bleach, he fits the personality requirements to a T. If you wanted to buff this type then changes would need to be made to make it scale off of ranks which would result in it overall being weaker, however as it stands once someone releases they get 1200 strength and 1200 SpPr with 12000 reiatsu.

Shinigami: Are able to class up their shikai all the way to class 1 .

Rogue: Rogue.... well they're shit out of luck on this one type, but hey there had to be one race that can't work with it right?

Vizard: Can't be this type

Beast-Clan: Can't be this type

Arrancar: Class of release is based off of class of user.

Hollow: Can't be this type

Fullbringer: Can raise primary fullbring to class 1

Bount: Dolls are equivalent to Bount's Class.

Mod Soul: Can't be this type

Quincy: Arrows dictate what sort of class the attack is and with 12000 Reiatsu they won't be running out any time soon

Failures: Can't be this type

Akki: Akki can release their premara at class 1 if wanted.

Nakabakki: Needs clarification given their unique release makeup.

Saika: I don't really know how new Saika work, I thought that they had techs now not release levels so this needs to be clarified

Hason: Can't be used.



That is the release of every race when it comes to this type and say for Rogue's Nakabaki, and Saikai(because i'm not 100% sure how they work now) Every single race that can use this type can release their base release at class one or have a way to have it be class one. This in effect removes the need for a higher level release as for the most part, besides size higher levels of release generally only have higher class going for them.

" There are cases where these people _MIGHT NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO RELEASE. PERIOD._ That is an issue." That is an issue if you don't plan properly with stat distribution. Both soul specialist types are types you go in knowing that in a fight you should always release. If someone at first post can't release due to poor stat distribution that is on them not the type it's self. While on the topic about using release and reiatsu, this is an RP site, it is up to the Rper to balance their reiatsu reserves and know when to go all out or when to be conservative

“Then V2 becomes completely inferior and useless” I would like you to look at Aimo. Who was this type and was around when the site as a whole was at a different meta especially captains, who were much stronger back then. Aimo was a class 2 fraccion that could take on and defeat Captains using this type. Captains who were easily rank 3 and 4, so I highly doubt this is an inferior type or a useless one.


“First, add the clause attached to V2 to V1. They're both versions of the same types and thus should by all logical standpoints, have the same mechanics. This way they're consistent, make sense and Physical types especially don't get completely screwed over, as well as spiritual users. Getting stats back slowly over 3-4 post is hard as it is. “

While yes I agree that the clause does need to be added sadly the logical argument here isn't as clean as you might think, especially when you look at Prodigy v1 vs the v2 the V1 has higher stat boosts in the secondary earlier on and the restrictions on the type are less harsh and aren't mandatory unlike V2 and lets not even get started on how different fighter v1 is to fighter v2. Just because they share the same name doesn't mean both types are held to the same standard. In this case like I said before yes you are correct on the fact that the clause needs to be added in, however only due to an oversight, not because they're suppose to be the same.

Looking at the numbers by the way between V1 and V2 you're talking about rank four V1. A rank four slot isn't something that is easily earned, for most people it's a hard task that takes a lot of time and effort, that and unlike ranks 3-1 they are very limited meaning the number of people actually reaching it on a V1 will be extremely limited. So for all the hard work for them to only be 50% stronger is fair, especially as I've said before V2 doesn't care about rank requirements.

Also if you removed the personality requirement off of this type it becomes down right busted for arrancar and would be used exclusively by them without any major drawbacks. Given that their release would last for 16 posts, they would have unlimited reiatsu and down right insane amounts of both strength and RS making it the ideal type for them that would be abusable by every single arrancar no matter what rank, which isn't balanced in the least bit. One final thing to note SSV2 isn't staff made, it was made by Kid, a former Rper of the site and the person who made Aimo and at the time of creation the type was made like that so it wouldn't be broken.


In summery, yes a clarification needs to be made, but this wasn't an issue if you asked people who use the type and no SSV2 doesn't need buffs it is perfectly fine where it's at, these are both nitch types they aren't suppose to be easy types to have characters with given how strong they become.

Faust A SSV1 type user who worked his way up from class 8 using this type without issue.

1. Asked a mod, who then went to mod chat and came back with a response. Do you have a problem with this process? Why would I have question to trust a mod's word? Unlike some people, not really a fan of just going around them. He's also the one who suggested I write this out here. Also, as an aside: Unwritten rules are not rules.


2. Which is overall still much more restricting, for less value than the very thing it's supposed to be a V2 of. You can compare it to whatever you want but if isn't V1, then it's unimportant because I'm not addressing overall balance, I'm addressing the balance between two related types. It isn't about perfection, it's about math not adding up and two types which are supposed to be a variant of each other being wildly out of whack. If you think either of these are far too strong by themselves, then hey. You're in the wrong thread but right place. Not to be rude, mind you. 


Not sure why you're listing what the classes can do here, it's not adding anything or taking away anything from either mine or your perspective. If you're some how trying to argue that just a single release isn't a big drawback, we're just going to have to disagree on a very fundamental level.


In summary if a mod tells me multiple people who use this type have had different clarifications about the exact same type and he couldn't get a straight answer from mod chat to the point he asked me to write this suggestion down as well as make it a point of discussion to be brought up with everyone in the mod team, then I'm afraid it isn't clear and you're just doing what I was doing previously: Assuming. But that isn't how rules work nor rulings work.

If Faust is using SSV1 like I have been as well so far, I.E how I assumed it work before I actually looked into: Then yes, it would be working just fine. If it is a clarification error, then welcome to the reason for this post. However, if SSV1 does indeed work as we are ASSUMING it does (since there is no found office ruling) then I stand exactly by my arguments for SSV2. The reverse also applies.

summed up: I think we just disagree

[Wycliff]

1. You said you asked a single mod and I quote “John didn't know off the top of his head. “ Which is why I asked if you had only asked one mod and other people who have used the type, because given what you said it seemed like you only asked John. I never said anything about not trusting a mod's word I simply said no mod knows every last detail about the site and every last ruling. Don't know where you got that notion from, but that is clearly wrong. Sadly Lich there are unwritten rules on this site that members who have been around know about and follow, yes they are slowly becoming erased over time and are being written down, but they still are rules. EX how impact strength works when it comes to the 3x rule.


2. V2 is still a strong type even when compared to the version 1. There are some harsher restrictions, however the raw power is earned earlier and easier than V1. By the way if you look at every single type that has a second version of it, the drawbacks vs strengths are drastically different. Fighter v1 has a small boost to both physicals and removes spiritual based release and techs while v2 boosts one physical and one spiritual stat with extra techs earned and higher cutback requirements while cutting the two stats not boosted and the loss of reiatsu based attacks. Prodigy v1 has less restrict drawbacks than the V2 version which has mandatory stat placement per rank. Cripple v1 loses out on the second level of release, while v2 forces you to be either blind or deaf. So when looking at all the types that have a second version of it there is a major difference between them that makes them unique and is there for balance sake. There are only two types that don't follow this exactly. Prodigy, which has the closest in terms of drawbacks, however one is less restrictive. The other being solider version two which isn't a different type, it's an upgrade to the original type. The types are strong and balanced the way they are, there isn't a need to remove a needed drawback for arguably a type that could be abused if not for the personality drawback. 



For most races, they don't lose out a lot if they lose a level of release, especially shingami and bount which don't lose out on techs and keep all the techs, just in one level of release.  Arrancar essentially get massive amounts of strength and RS with Unlimited reiatsu(as far as segunda is concerned, only the top four espada will ever have that and only if they invest 400 into HE which given the way this type works isn't very easy given the stat cuts before release.) Quincy may only get a form property, however with the strength they have it might be all they need really. Other races aren't that lucky, but then this isn't the only type out there for them. However the largest thing to take from this in terms of balance overall for the type is compared to other types including V1, what does it give up for what it gains? It loses nothing in stats(at least not for long) so the drawbacks have to come somewhere else, and they come in a few ways, not having the exact same stat boost, the personality drawback and finally the limit to one level of release. At the end of the day V2 still is very strong in it's own right even when compared to V1 and again only at Rank 4 does V1 outshine V2 in raw numbers, however at the same token while sealed V2 has a 33% cut to everything but strength which is a 75% cut. V1 at Rank 3 and 4 has a 75% cut to all stats say for the ones boosted by the type. While sealed V2 is stronger, while released V2 is still able to fight at an even level when your looking at 1400 for V1 vs 1200 for V2. A 200 stat point difference isn't that much when you factor in the fact that V1 still has to fight with a majority of it's stats still sealed while v2 gets everything right away.



The saying "The candle that burns twice as bright, burns twice as fast" is really applied here V2 gets strong fast and easy so it makes sense that those that take it can't access their race's full potential. 


While again yes the clarification needs to be done, if only to make it so that this doesn't come up again. On that note it doesn't make sense to tack on this request to strengthen V2 given that in it's state it's fine how it is. Oh one last thing V2 was created specifically to be used by Arrancar. Kid made the type for his arrancar and it was passed the way it was with that in mind.

[Kitai Yoru]

On a slightly related note, saika have multiple releases, the numbers going from 5, 3, and 1, each having a separate costs, so they would in fact lose two releases that cannot scale like shikai or fullbring.

[Arantima Kawada]

while sealed V2 has a 33% cut to everything but strength which is a 75% cut

This math is incorrect. For v2 ALL stats are cut by 75% and Strength is cut by 4 times. Which means All Stats are cut to a third of their original point allocation before type bonuses and that their strength is reduced to 25% of their original stat allocation before type. As follow with the following stats for simplicity no HE and no ES.

100 Strength
100 Reaitsu strength
100 Speed
100 Spiritual pressure
100 Instinct
100 Senses

These stats become The following while sealed

25 Strength
33 Reaitsu Strength
33 Speed
33 Spiritual pressure
33 Instinct
33 Senses

While they become This when Released

300 Strength
100 Reaitsu Strength
100 Speed
300 Spiritual pressure
100 Instinct
100 Senses

The issues that we were discussing last night is Less of a fact that these types absolutely need to be buffed but the fact that there are discrepancies between the types that make little or no sense. And if the SSV1's do not include that Clause for Regaining Reaitsu the same way that V2's get it means that there is another drawback in the type that is not made clear. And if it is available to V1's then giving up all other releases and forcing a rather stark personality change when you release makes SSv2 less attractive overall.

While yes their Stats go back to full immediately they are FAR weaker than a V1 while sealed, FAR weaker As a V1 keeps the base value of their stat allocations while sealed. So a ssv1 With the Same original stat allocations as above would look like this sealed if they chose spirituals as their boost and choosing instinct as their boost.

33 Strength
100 Reaitsu strength
33 Speed
100 Spiritual pressure
100 Instinct
33 Senses

Now this is due to the fact that You ALSO increase 1 Sensory stat of your choice at rank 2 and above. So Do to the wording of the way that Stats are reduced by the type. " When sealed, all Stats are treated as their base SP values and all non-increased Stats are cut by 75% (100 would be 25)" This means that any stat that gets a boost is not reduced below its base stat allocation during a sealed stat for SSv1 So you retain most of the Sensory stat that you boost even while sealed.

A SSv2 Looses an entire stat allocation compared to SSv1 which I can more than accept since they do not worry about rank at all. That can be included in the Rampaging Berserker Attitude requirement as well. But what are they getting in return for the loss of another release? This would be thought of as the instant stat allocation, Which works but only so much. You loose out on a lot of power Loosing a second release, Look at SSv1 vs SSv2. They get a second release and higher stats. And they retain a LOT of their sensory capability while sealed. And Then it would be at the end of the second post that their full combat potential is returned. The Last two stats to return would probably be the least important to return to full. Atop of this a SSv1 can still think tactically and be in command of his full facilities.

A SSv2 Has a Single Release. The first release will always loose to a secondary release Until they match in class. So for a Class 1 SSv2 Shinigami To Match a Bankai level release they must spend 450 Reaitsu and Dock 2 posts off of their release time knocking it down to 18 post duration to match a Bankai. Where the SSv1 Can simply release a 20 post duration Bankai for 300 Reaitsu. This is where the Final distinction comes in through, The fact that SSV2 Gets their Reaitsu increased when they get their spiritual pressure increase. If a SSV1 Get this as well What do SSV2 get other than an instant stat Restoration vs SSv1 for all they loose in comparison?

That is all me and Lich are asking, and we are looking to the mod team to get the answer for this. A Clause must be written into a type or technique for the rule to stand solid especially since there have been multiple interpretations in the past. We are not attacking either type or anyone using either interpretation of these types, we are simply asking for clarification on something and it was recommended that a suggestion thread was posted.

"Asking people who use the type" Is not the same as asking the mod team, We have mods for a reason and things like this are exactly that reason. To get a Clear and final ruling on the matter. Me and Lich both use these types, and were discussing them and found out these strange discrepancies between them and decided to ask about them. The answers were not in unison so this needs to be clarified officially instead of being left to interpretation.

[Zeich Yajuu]

Alright, let's first start by checking our tone on this, folks. I get that you have a lot of investment, as this is your character's Type, but this is going from a conversation to an argument, and we need to tone it back.

Now, I’m going through this and starting by answering the questions as I go, and addressing any misunderstandings.


First, regarding Reiatsu: As stated, Reiatsu is restored when SpPr is restored, for both Types. I believe that it was simply an artifact that one didn’t have the clause listed. So in either case, when you “restore” your SpPr, you will recover an appropriate amount of Reiatsu. In practice, if you recover 200 SpPr from Releasing, then you will increase your current Reiatsu by 2000. i.e. You’d go from 1000/2000 to 3000/4000, etc.


Second, on a discussion involving strength: in this instance, Faust is correct; each Type has its own advantages and disadvantages, and their uses vary by situation. Soul Specialist Version 1 is superior in terms of final strength, i.e. as a Rank 3/4 Type; with this, you get a 3.5x boost to either Strength/Speed or Reiatsu Strength/Spiritual Pressure, as well as a single sensory boost. This outweighs the 3x boost to Strength and either Reiatsu Strength or Spiritual Pressure (race dependant) that V2 gets.

But in the end, remember that this is an end game result. When it comes to climbing the ranks, SSv2 is superior in the fact that it not only has the full stat boost right away, but it also restores all of the stats immediately. This is compared to SSv1 who, while having better stats and release duration, has to spend four posts to regain all of their stats. While this matters less for people who 0 out HE and ES (the latter of which can technically be detrimental by situation), reducing it to three posts, that’s still three posts in which something important is cut, including the bonus. Having your Instinct be cut to 25% of its normal value for 0-2 posts (0 if done on first post, 2 if done on the second, because it’s at the end after the first), can potentially mess you up. If you do something like OS + Instinct first round, your Instinct only matters so much because you don’t have the Speed to react. This requires you to build in a way that allows you to stall until your stats are back, which can be difficult depending on your abilities.


One other thing you compare is the Release levels, and how SSv2 has to pay for the Class up, and ends up with less post duration (18 v. 20). Once more, you’re also comparing a Rank 4 build for SSv1, something that’s not easily achievable. On average, the general player is Rank 2/3 at best, with most sitting around Rank 2. So you’re actually looking at 18 v. 15 there. In the end, though, this is almost entirely moot; the majority of battles last roughly 20 posts, or 10 posts on each side of the field, meaning that the bonus Release duration is generally moot. In the end, SSV2 has to pay slightly more Reiatsu, and that’s it.

You also talk about how you’re less powerful for getting only one Release level – this is not true! Many of our Shinigami and Arrancar only need one Release level. Arrancar in particular have it easy with how hard it is to get Segunda Etapa, so having one Release level hardly hurts them. This is a case of how well you design your power, however, and not inherent in the Type itself.

So yes, SSv1 is more powerful in the end than SSv2, but it’s also a higher-risk, higher-reward Type. These two Types are not made to be identical, and neither are worthless; one is better for a riskier play style, while the other is better for a more consistent but overall less potent one.


Going forward:

We will add the Reiatsu clause to SSv1. Otherwise, we have no reason to change SSv2. Not all Types are created equal, and one gives consistency over a long-term goal for power, so they are fine as they are, remaining separate and unique.

[Astaroth]

Thank you Z. Im more than happy with that. Though would still like a discussion on how the Ssv1s get the Sensory boost ontop of all that. Honestly just the lack of tactical thinking for ssv2 is a crux for me even if I understand where it comes from Im not the most comfortable with it. Speaking as someone who has come up with a creative way to deal with the stark contrast and still Has the type with that resctriction. Ive shown how they give up quite a lot for what they get. I can agree they dont really need any sort of stat buff or access to a second release. But im not sure that forcing the Personality shift to be worse than v1's is entirely needed. But that Might be discussion for later.

[Wycliff]

Jun 26, 2018 13:14:17 GMT -5 Arantima Kawada said:

while sealed V2 has a 33% cut to everything but strength which is a 75% cut

This math is incorrect. For v2 ALL stats are cut by 75% and Strength is cut by 4 times. Which means All Stats are cut to a third of their original point allocation before type bonuses and that their strength is reduced to 25% of their original stat allocation before type. As follow with the following stats for simplicity no HE and no ES.

100 Strength
100 Reaitsu strength
100 Speed
100 Spiritual pressure
100 Instinct
100 Senses

These stats become The following while sealed

25 Strength
33 Reaitsu Strength
33 Speed
33 Spiritual pressure
33 Instinct
33 Senses

While they become This when Released

300 Strength
100 Reaitsu Strength
100 Speed
300 Spiritual pressure
100 Instinct
100 Senses

The issues that we were discussing last night is Less of a fact that these types absolutely need to be buffed but the fact that there are discrepancies between the types that make little or no sense. And if the SSV1's do not include that Clause for Regaining Reaitsu the same way that V2's get it means that there is another drawback in the type that is not made clear. And if it is available to V1's then giving up all other releases and forcing a rather stark personality change when you release makes SSv2 less attractive overall.

While yes their Stats go back to full immediately they are FAR weaker than a V1 while sealed, FAR weaker As a V1 keeps the base value of their stat allocations while sealed. So a ssv1 With the Same original stat allocations as above would look like this sealed if they chose spirituals as their boost and choosing instinct as their boost.

33 Strength
100 Reaitsu strength
33 Speed
100 Spiritual pressure
100 Instinct
33 Senses

Now this is due to the fact that You ALSO increase 1 Sensory stat of your choice at rank 2 and above. So Do to the wording of the way that Stats are reduced by the type. " When sealed, all Stats are treated as their base SP values and all non-increased Stats are cut by 75% (100 would be 25)" This means that any stat that gets a boost is not reduced below its base stat allocation during a sealed stat for SSv1 So you retain most of the Sensory stat that you boost even while sealed.

A SSv2 Looses an entire stat allocation compared to SSv1 which I can more than accept since they do not worry about rank at all. That can be included in the Rampaging Berserker Attitude requirement as well. But what are they getting in return for the loss of another release? This would be thought of as the instant stat allocation, Which works but only so much. You loose out on a lot of power Loosing a second release, Look at SSv1 vs SSv2. They get a second release and higher stats. And they retain a LOT of their sensory capability while sealed. And Then it would be at the end of the second post that their full combat potential is returned. The Last two stats to return would probably be the least important to return to full. Atop of this a SSv1 can still think tactically and be in command of his full facilities.

A SSv2 Has a Single Release. The first release will always loose to a secondary release Until they match in class. So for a Class 1 SSv2 Shinigami To Match a Bankai level release they must spend 450 Reaitsu and Dock 2 posts off of their release time knocking it down to 18 post duration to match a Bankai. Where the SSv1 Can simply release a 20 post duration Bankai for 300 Reaitsu. This is where the Final distinction comes in through, The fact that SSV2 Gets their Reaitsu increased when they get their spiritual pressure increase. If a SSV1 Get this as well What do SSV2 get other than an instant stat Restoration vs SSv1 for all they loose in comparison?

That is all me and Lich are asking, and we are looking to the mod team to get the answer for this. A Clause must be written into a type or technique for the rule to stand solid especially since there have been multiple interpretations in the past. We are not attacking either type or anyone using either interpretation of these types, we are simply asking for clarification on something and it was recommended that a suggestion thread was posted.

"Asking people who use the type" Is not the same as asking the mod team, We have mods for a reason and things like this are exactly that reason. To get a Clear and final ruling on the matter. Me and Lich both use these types, and were discussing them and found out these strange discrepancies between them and decided to ask about them. The answers were not in unison so this needs to be clarified officially instead of being left to interpretation.

Tima.... please reread the drawback on your type before saying my math is wrong. I don't know why you think that all stats are cut by 75% when sealed for version two, but it's clear as day that that isn't the case.  Below is the type listed with the drawback clearly stating and I quote "Decrease Stats by 33% (100 would be 64) in sealed form except for Strength, which is reduced by 75% (100 would be 25)."
As far as the rest goes Z has already gone through it all and sums it up in a clear way "Not all Types are created equal, and one gives consistency over a long-term goal for power, so they are fine as they are, remaining separate and unique."

Type: Soul Specialist Version 2



Description: Someone who has focused all of their power into their Release. For this reason, they are extremely weak in their sealed state, but have exceptional power after Releasing. Someone of this Type relies on their Release a lot more then others and is basically useless without it, but they are some of the most fearsome fighters once they have Released.



Advantage:



All Ranks: All bonuses are granted upon activating Release. Triple Strength during Release (100 would be 300). Arrancar will have their Reiatsu Strength tripled during Release, while all other eligible races will have their Spiritual Pressure tripled during their Release. Able to stay in Release form twice as many posts then normal.



Note: When Spiritual Pressure is restored to full value, current and maximum Reiatsu are both increased accordingly. i.e. if 200 Spiritual Pressure is regained, then 2000 Reiatsu will be added to both current and maximum Reiatsu. This only applies to Spiritual Pressure restored as a part of this Type's mechanic.





Disadvantage: Drawback for All Ranks: Decrease Stats by 33% (100 would be 64) in sealed form except for Strength, which is reduced by 75% (100 would be 25). Only allowed one Release level. Energy Sensory cannot go above 0. Character must be unable to formulate elaborate plans while in their Released form. NO TACTICIANS. Characters of this Type are insane and are prone to make stupid mistakes in battle such as attacking friends or causing self-injury by mistake.



Race Restrictions: Available to all Races except Beast-Clansmen, Vizard, Mod Souls, Hollows, Hason, and Failures.



Initial Weapons: One Starting Weapon (i.e. one Zanpakutō, one Doll, etc.)

[Astaroth]

The above math is how I was told to do my stats as an Ssv2 since I joined the site.. By Z.

But if I have been doing my stats wrong this entire time thats good news for me.

[Zeich Yajuu]

You can say I told you that, but I really don't recall as such. I was wondering where you got that math when it's written right out.

It says very specifically that it's a 33% cut (with an example afterward of 100 becoming 66) and a 75% cut to strength (100 to 25). I think perhaps you misunderstood me when I listed it was a cut BY 33%, not a cut TO 33%. So rather than falling to 1/3 or 33 out of 100, it should be 2/3 or 66 out of 100.

[Arantima Kawada]

That is very possible. its just stuck with me since I joined. So. Hey Learned something positive!

And yeah more than likely Misread you back on Chatango. Was very confused with that math back then, just used it since.