New Type idea: Underdog

[Astrid Vess]

Type: Underdog

Description:

Underdogs are the individuals you expect little from. The people that have an obvious flaw or inability to keep up with those around them. In this case they lack a release, or release equivalent. However, where they may not have the stock standard abilities of their race, they instead push themselves to go beyond the normal bounds of what their minds, bodies, and souls would otherwise allow to keep up. 


Advantage:

All Ranks: Upon taking this type a user selects one stat. This stat can be pushed beyond the 400 SP limit, allowing an individual to train up to 500 SP. This does not prevent the user from using a rank SP boost to push this to 600. At Rank 3 pick an additional stat, it can now be trained up to 500 SP. This does not give SP, rather it increases the cap that base SP totals can go to. In addition, users of this type gain an additional Skill point to their total per rank in this type. This caps the user at 25 SkP at rank 4.

Rank 1: Pick 1 stat gain 50% boost to it. Pick another gain 25% boost. Non-release techniques cost 10% less TTP to learn/master.

Rank 2: Pick 1 stat gain 75% boost to it. Pick another gain 50% boost. Non-release techs cost 15% less TTP to learn/master.

Rank 3: Pick 1 stat gain 100% boost to it. Pick another gain 75% boost. Non-release techs cost 20% less TTP to learn/master.

Rank 4: Pick 1 stat gain 100% boost to it. Pick another gain 100% boost. Non-release techs cost 25% less TTP to learn/master.


Disadvantage:

Those to use this type do not have a release or a release equivalent. (I.E. Mod Souls which do not have a release but have a release equivalent.) In addition, the user of this type cannot use Class 3-1 techniques immediately. They must progress through "Warm Up" posts. Warm up posts are simply posts where the character gets acclimated to the current fight. After 2 posts, Class 3 techniques can be used. After 4 posts, Class 2 techniques can be used. And finally, after 6 posts Class 1 techniques can be used. (Class 0 can be used at this point if a character can use them.)

Rank 1: Pick one non-increased physical/spiritual stat. Reduce it by 25%. Cut another sensory or physical/spiritual stat by 20%. (Cannot be ES/HE)

Rank 2: Pick one non-increased physical/spiritual stat. Reduce it by 40%. Cut another sensory or physical/spiritual stat by 30%. (Cannot be ES/HE)

Rank 3: Pick one non-increased physical/spiritual stat. Reduce it by 50%. Cut another sensory or physical/spiritual stat by 40%. (Cannot be ES/HE)

Rank 4: Pick one non-increased physical/spiritual stat. Reduce it by 50%. Cut another sensory or physical/spiritual stat by 50%. (Cannot be ES/HE)


Race Restrictions: All but Hollows, Vizards, Beast-Clan, and Failures.

Initial Weapons: Does not start with a weapon.

[Astrid Vess]

I'd like to take a moment to explain a bit more of the goals for this type. The goal is to try and not only branch out the non-release choice for various races, but also create a type that is focused on basically being a better individual. Without a release to focus on the individual in question would be left having to play catch up. So, to me that meant that they need to be better than others at some of the basics. Hence the increased SP cap without the additional SP. An easier time to learn techniques while still following the technique rules. And then just a handful of extra Skill Points to help give an individual a bit more to work with.

The goal is not to be the "best" type or the best at any one thing but just be good enough to keep up despite the lack of a key component for their race. I.E. their release. With the unique "underdog" feel of the warmup posts so that an individual plays like what one would expect. Underwhelming at first before they can really show their full potential.

Hopefully its balanced out enough for it to be seriously considered but if there are any concerns or questions feel free to comment here or poke me on the Discord.

[Col Arana]

As was mentioned on the recently proposed Resolved Type, I don't think there's really much of a need for more types that take away a character's release. I also strongly disagree with allowing them to push a stat past the normal 400 cap. Also, the Skill feels... a bit random?

Overall, this type may be a bit misnamed. It doesn't really feel like an "Underdog" type, if I'm being honest. A type like the Roughneck seems a bit closer to the idea of an Underdog type (given its comparatively low boosts), this type... really doesn't seem to have an identity, it seems to be getting pulled in all sorts of different directions without a clear focus.

[Astrid Vess]

I would like to say I appreciate the look over, but I do want to say one thing before I delve into what you've said. While I understand your concerns and dislike with what is presented, I would like some direction that you recommend for the type when/if you look over this again. I'm fine with being told that the type doesn't work as is but from your response I don't really have much to work off of to try and make it better fit the site. And admittedly that's a bit frustrating to read because it did take some time to put this type together and try to get something that is as "unique" as the site allows. All things considered. So please keep that in mind if you respond again.


Non-Release Types Argument:

As for your concerns I'd like to take a moment to address them in piecemeal. Firstly, you've mentioned that we do not have a need for a type that takes a character's release away. I'm going to be honest and say I think that's wrong. We have two types that are incredibly limited on what races can pick them. I'll even put them here so that you can see what I mean.

Kenpachi:

Race Restrictions: Available only to Fullbringers, Bount, Shinigami, and Saika. There can be a maximum of five Kenpachi at a time.



Technique Masters:

Race Restrictions: Available to: Shinigami, Arrancar, Nakabakki, Akki, Fullbringers, Quincy, and Bount. No more than five Technique Masters can exist at a time.


So, with the race restrictions presented we need to compare these to the number of races as a whole. Counting them down that's 15 races. Kenpachi has 4 of 15 races that can use it. The sites "physical equivalent" to a TM, a releaseless type allows 4 races on site to take it. Anyone else that had an idea about that niche cannot play into it. That's not alright and is exceptionally limiting. Something that this type aims to fix since it's a fairly open type compared to both of the aforementioned types.


Now with TM you've got 7 out of 15. And I'll own up that's not that bad actually. But it's not good enough. There are still half the sites races, sans hollows which we can both agree wouldn't apply to this theme as they lack a release to begin with, that cannot take either type. Races that should be able to take either and play off of them. Half of the site is not good enough and I say this because for example, if we want a physical fighter with a release, we have at least an entire section dedicated to that. Berserker, Brave, Fighter, Weapon Master, Runner, Prodigy v1. Most of these allow any and all races to take them. So even if a couple don't work for the race you've chosen, you've got a substitute.


The gimmick/character concept of not having a release is not as readily available. And we've already proven that with the above listing. This is in part why Underdog or Resolved is being presented because regardless of how you may feel about releaseless types the fact is we do not have enough. Nor can a majority of the site opt into them if they desire to. They are inherently too limiting and too few in number.



Lack of Direction:

Moving onto the lack of direction, I'll own up that maybe there is a bit of a lacking direction. It is hard to reinvent the wheel after all. But the goal as mentioned in my previous post is that the user initially comes off as lesser than their peers. Which would make sense when you realize the type takes away your release and plays into a buildup phase before you can use your higher-class techniques. They appear on the surface to be weaker than others. And with moderate boosts to boot the truth is that unless you utilize the increased training capacity you are a kind of middling character even at rank 4. 800 in a stat is great but not always going to be enough. Especially if you want to be an OS focused character. But then again this type isn't intended to be a high OS type.


To me, this is why I named it underdog. Because you will be a bit lacking compared to those around you on the surface level. But that's why there's the other benefits. Which as previously mentioned are my attempt at showing how the character focuses on themselves. If you don't need to learn the ins and outs of a release, then the only thing left to learn and develop is yourself. Mind, Body, and Soul. It's a little more thematic to say that but between expanded training caps, an easier time to learn techniques, and the additional skill points I'd argue that this theme of training yourself beyond what your peers would be capable of emphasizes this ideology. And to me at least, further shows the name of the type. If you want an underdog to win a scenario they have to work harder, be smarter, or do something off the wall that is going to let them overcome those who had no disadvantages.


While I understand where you're coming from on saying it may be lacking an identity I'd actually argue otherwise. If anything, I'd say roughneck, the type you've compared it to, to doesn't have an identity. It's simply a lesser Struggler without as many drawbacks. The lack of learning techniques at a higher class doesn't really give a feeling of a "rough neck" or "stubborn individual" that was simply a unique drawback slapped on to give the appearance of a difference. But ultimately this is an argument of personal opinion and thus isn't going to amount to much. If, however, you've ideas on how to give this type more "identity" or make it separate itself more then I'm more than open to recommendations or ideas. But as it stands, I think it's got the identity it needs and I think if there's anything that needs to be changed, it's probably the description of the type as it's a bit short/underwhelming. But that's just my thoughts.



SP Caps/SkP points:

Lastly, I actually have a question for you since these weren't expanded upon. Why do you disagree with the higher training caps on 1 or 2 stats and why do you feel the additional skills are random? I've explained my thoughts on the skills earlier, so I won't speak on that but the expanded caps I'm curious about. Because as far as the type is concerned, you're not actually making anything grossly outside of what the system could handle. If a stat is boosted and given the expanded cap, then the highest it goes is 1000. A strong end game but ultimately nothing that we don't see at rank 3/4 already, type depending of course.


In addition, it's not as though an individual gains bonus SP like you would a Kenpachi. You simply have a higher cap to go to which means you funnel more of your limited SP into a single stat to further engrain yourself into your strengths. Or in the case of maybe a weakness you could try and get a bit more SP out of them. From where I'm sitting it doesn't seem very harmful but perhaps you see something I don't with it. Regardless I look forward to hearing your response on this as well as the randomness of skill points.

[Kitai Yoru]

The problem I have with this most, is the potential for this to be exploited through the TTP reduction for techniques, then switching off the type for another. I would like this to be addressed in some way. As for exceeding the SP cap, maybe make it into a rank bonus, where you get 50 per rank past the Sp cap, that way you don't just get it at two ranks, but I ultimately don't mind it being there given the lower stat boosts. Underdog might not be the best name for this, so maybe something like Disconnected, or something that would call attention the lack of connection to their own soul, to the point where they cannot even call upon or manifest a release of their own.