Post by Tsuyoshi Minamoto on Jul 22, 2022 18:34:09 GMT -5
Current Mechanic
Hollow do not have any Class 0 Mechanics.
Proposed Change
Hollow are able to achieve Class 0.
Hollow are unable to convert consumption TP to CTP at Class 1. Hollow no longer receive half CTP from certain threads at Class 1.
Class 0 (57,500 CTP, no new SP gained) - Hollows are unable to convert consumption TP to SP. Hollow receive an additional +400 SP to their cap that they may train for. Hollow may NO LONGER break their mask through any means, without exception. Hollow are given two free reserved techniques, referred to as ‘Pinnacle’ techniques. These techniques are reserved, may not be taught and must directly pertain to the Hollow’s power theme. These techniques are Class 0 techniques. The Hollow can not make any other Class 0 Techniques related to their power, but otherwise are subject to the same technique creation rules as other characters. Like the rest of their reserved, power-related techniques, The Hollow does NOT need to train for or pay for these techniques.
Final SP Caps: 1000 (Without Training) / 2100 (With Training) / 2300 (With Training and Training Tier)
Narratively: The most elite tier of Vasto Lorde is poorly understood by the spiritual races, including the natives to Hueco Mundo, because of the rarity of a Vasto Lorde in existence. While some speculation exists as to what makes a Vasto Lorde, there are some general principles that are understood: Vasto Lorde are no longer in danger of regressing to an inferior evolution, they no longer need to consume to maintain their stability and form, they generally do not experience unending hunger as they did in their lesser forms, and they are the peak of Hollow Evolution. Yet, not all Vasto Lorde are made equal.
While many Vasto Lorde, at the peak of their strength, inevitably break their hollow mask and become Arrancar through their own means, there are some Vasto Lorde whose spiritual pressure is simply too dense and their spiritual make-up too complex from the consumption of different souls being forcibly compressed into a singular form. These Vasto Lorde are unable to break their hollow mask for the sheer fact that they are unable to ‘seal’ their form away into an appropriately carried form, nor are they able to seal their instincts in such a way as to become ‘truly’ human. While Vasto Lorde are, by definition, significantly closer to human in personality and appearance than their brethren, they will never be as close as their Arrancar counterparts.
Vasto Lorde who have reached this evolutionary stage are sometimes referred to as ‘Regio Lorde’, but it is acceptable to refer to them as their actual evolution as well, which is still that of a Vasto Lorde.
It is unclear how many Regio Lorde exist, or if they always exist, and it is completely unknown as to what differentiates a Vasto Lorde from a Regio Lorde and when this change occurs. Regio Lorde, like Vasto Lorde, cannot be defined by any singular habit or trait and come in a variety of personas. Deep in the repository of Central 46 and some other ancient spiritual texts, the Regio Lorde is often described as a creature who is ‘nearly human’ but ‘possesses vast spiritual energy capable of consuming the most potent of spiritual combatants’. Regio Lordes are often comparable to Squad Zero Members in terms of strength and can fight on equal footing with several Captains without difficulty.
Rationale
There are some concerns that this would be considered ‘too strong’ in comparison to some of the other races on board, but I would like to elaborate a bit on where this idea came from. First, the limitation on Consumption: going from Class 1 to Class 0 is absolutely not something that should benefit from the increased rate of growth that Hollow have at the other classes given that it is an egregious advantage over other races, and that Vasto Lorde gain questionable, if any, benefits from consuming souls in both manga canon and site canon.
Secondly, both narratively and mechanically, it makes sense for the ‘Class 0’ for Hollow to be the conscious decision to remain a Hollow permanently, with all of the type restrictions that come with it. Because of this, they remove the possibility of receiving a release, they remove the possibility of learning techniques other than their own custom-made techniques and their power-themed reserve techniques, and should receive some compensation for doing so.
The most obvious is the additional +400 SP that they would have gotten from mask breaking in the first place. This change brings Class 0 Hollow in line with their Arrancar cousins who decided to break their mask, in order to avoid unfairly punishing Hollow for choosing not to become arrancar. This SP, however, should have to be trained for instead of acquired through the elevated consumption TP which, under normal circumstances, would hardly, if ever, be used by a Hollow above Class 1 anyway due to the vast majority of their techniques being free and related to their power.
In addition, by giving the Class 0 Hollow one or two extra slots that can be dedicated to power-based release techniques, they receive added benefit given that the Hollow faction does not have a ‘true release’. I perceive this as a small ‘added bonus’ given that a Class 0 character is allowed to make Class 0 techniques anyway.
Conclusion
Hollow should have a Class 0.
The argument that I’ve heard over the last several weeks is that ‘we don’t have any evidence that Vasto Lorde get any stronger’ and ‘Hollow don’t need a Class 0’ and ‘Hollow should just mask break to Arrancar if they want to be Class 0’. I strongly disagree with all three of these sentiments.
Firstly, we know that not all Vasto Lorde are created equal. The Vasto Lorde examples that we see in the anime all possess very different powers and abilities, of varying strengths, and occupy varying roles based on their experiences and their personalities. Starrk, as a strong example, is so powerful that almost no creatures can stand in his presence, even after he splits his being in two. This level of power is not what we see on par with the likes of Barragan and Tier, and we unfortunately do not see any other Vasto Lorde to really make a detailed comparison, but we know that not all Vasto Lorde are created equal, and it’s very likely that there is some semblance of power progression after a Vasto Lorde comes into being.
Secondly, to say that Hollow don’t need a Class 0 is to state the obvious. None of the races need a Class 0. If the argument is that Hollow don’t need a Class 0, then endgame progression, in my opinion, should be reviewed for every race and their endgame progression should be shifted from Class 0 to some other, more roleplay-driven ascendency of their character. But it isn’t, so Hollow (like Saika and Failures, who I unfortunately cannot speak on because I have very little knowledge of them to start from) should get a Class 0, like every other race. The statement that Hollow should race-change to become Class 0 is also silly because again, there is no reason that any race should not have a Class 0 if it is a playable race.
I believe that this provides an effective solution, or at least the groundwork for an effective solution to give Hollow a path that does not end in ‘break your mask to become an Arrancar’.
Hollow do not have any Class 0 Mechanics.
Proposed Change
Hollow are able to achieve Class 0.
Hollow are unable to convert consumption TP to CTP at Class 1. Hollow no longer receive half CTP from certain threads at Class 1.
Class 0 (57,500 CTP, no new SP gained) - Hollows are unable to convert consumption TP to SP. Hollow receive an additional +400 SP to their cap that they may train for. Hollow may NO LONGER break their mask through any means, without exception. Hollow are given two free reserved techniques, referred to as ‘Pinnacle’ techniques. These techniques are reserved, may not be taught and must directly pertain to the Hollow’s power theme. These techniques are Class 0 techniques. The Hollow can not make any other Class 0 Techniques related to their power, but otherwise are subject to the same technique creation rules as other characters. Like the rest of their reserved, power-related techniques, The Hollow does NOT need to train for or pay for these techniques.
Final SP Caps: 1000 (Without Training) / 2100 (With Training) / 2300 (With Training and Training Tier)
Narratively: The most elite tier of Vasto Lorde is poorly understood by the spiritual races, including the natives to Hueco Mundo, because of the rarity of a Vasto Lorde in existence. While some speculation exists as to what makes a Vasto Lorde, there are some general principles that are understood: Vasto Lorde are no longer in danger of regressing to an inferior evolution, they no longer need to consume to maintain their stability and form, they generally do not experience unending hunger as they did in their lesser forms, and they are the peak of Hollow Evolution. Yet, not all Vasto Lorde are made equal.
While many Vasto Lorde, at the peak of their strength, inevitably break their hollow mask and become Arrancar through their own means, there are some Vasto Lorde whose spiritual pressure is simply too dense and their spiritual make-up too complex from the consumption of different souls being forcibly compressed into a singular form. These Vasto Lorde are unable to break their hollow mask for the sheer fact that they are unable to ‘seal’ their form away into an appropriately carried form, nor are they able to seal their instincts in such a way as to become ‘truly’ human. While Vasto Lorde are, by definition, significantly closer to human in personality and appearance than their brethren, they will never be as close as their Arrancar counterparts.
Vasto Lorde who have reached this evolutionary stage are sometimes referred to as ‘Regio Lorde’, but it is acceptable to refer to them as their actual evolution as well, which is still that of a Vasto Lorde.
It is unclear how many Regio Lorde exist, or if they always exist, and it is completely unknown as to what differentiates a Vasto Lorde from a Regio Lorde and when this change occurs. Regio Lorde, like Vasto Lorde, cannot be defined by any singular habit or trait and come in a variety of personas. Deep in the repository of Central 46 and some other ancient spiritual texts, the Regio Lorde is often described as a creature who is ‘nearly human’ but ‘possesses vast spiritual energy capable of consuming the most potent of spiritual combatants’. Regio Lordes are often comparable to Squad Zero Members in terms of strength and can fight on equal footing with several Captains without difficulty.
Rationale
There are some concerns that this would be considered ‘too strong’ in comparison to some of the other races on board, but I would like to elaborate a bit on where this idea came from. First, the limitation on Consumption: going from Class 1 to Class 0 is absolutely not something that should benefit from the increased rate of growth that Hollow have at the other classes given that it is an egregious advantage over other races, and that Vasto Lorde gain questionable, if any, benefits from consuming souls in both manga canon and site canon.
Secondly, both narratively and mechanically, it makes sense for the ‘Class 0’ for Hollow to be the conscious decision to remain a Hollow permanently, with all of the type restrictions that come with it. Because of this, they remove the possibility of receiving a release, they remove the possibility of learning techniques other than their own custom-made techniques and their power-themed reserve techniques, and should receive some compensation for doing so.
The most obvious is the additional +400 SP that they would have gotten from mask breaking in the first place. This change brings Class 0 Hollow in line with their Arrancar cousins who decided to break their mask, in order to avoid unfairly punishing Hollow for choosing not to become arrancar. This SP, however, should have to be trained for instead of acquired through the elevated consumption TP which, under normal circumstances, would hardly, if ever, be used by a Hollow above Class 1 anyway due to the vast majority of their techniques being free and related to their power.
In addition, by giving the Class 0 Hollow one or two extra slots that can be dedicated to power-based release techniques, they receive added benefit given that the Hollow faction does not have a ‘true release’. I perceive this as a small ‘added bonus’ given that a Class 0 character is allowed to make Class 0 techniques anyway.
Conclusion
Hollow should have a Class 0.
The argument that I’ve heard over the last several weeks is that ‘we don’t have any evidence that Vasto Lorde get any stronger’ and ‘Hollow don’t need a Class 0’ and ‘Hollow should just mask break to Arrancar if they want to be Class 0’. I strongly disagree with all three of these sentiments.
Firstly, we know that not all Vasto Lorde are created equal. The Vasto Lorde examples that we see in the anime all possess very different powers and abilities, of varying strengths, and occupy varying roles based on their experiences and their personalities. Starrk, as a strong example, is so powerful that almost no creatures can stand in his presence, even after he splits his being in two. This level of power is not what we see on par with the likes of Barragan and Tier, and we unfortunately do not see any other Vasto Lorde to really make a detailed comparison, but we know that not all Vasto Lorde are created equal, and it’s very likely that there is some semblance of power progression after a Vasto Lorde comes into being.
Secondly, to say that Hollow don’t need a Class 0 is to state the obvious. None of the races need a Class 0. If the argument is that Hollow don’t need a Class 0, then endgame progression, in my opinion, should be reviewed for every race and their endgame progression should be shifted from Class 0 to some other, more roleplay-driven ascendency of their character. But it isn’t, so Hollow (like Saika and Failures, who I unfortunately cannot speak on because I have very little knowledge of them to start from) should get a Class 0, like every other race. The statement that Hollow should race-change to become Class 0 is also silly because again, there is no reason that any race should not have a Class 0 if it is a playable race.
I believe that this provides an effective solution, or at least the groundwork for an effective solution to give Hollow a path that does not end in ‘break your mask to become an Arrancar’.
