Post by Ludwig Verrlicht on Jul 22, 2018 8:17:55 GMT -5
So just as the title mentions I'd like to talk about the idea of opening up this type for more races than just Shinigami, Fullbringer, and Quincy. So to start this off lets look at the type itself as a whole. So here is the type in it's entirety.
Alright so with the type brought up so everyone can take a moment to look at it here's my reasons for why I'd like to consider this type to be opened up for more races. Before I go further however the intent of this thread isn't so much as a suggestion or a proposition. I'd just like to discuss the idea on if it can be opened up further. It may not be able to but I'd at least like to place the question in the open.
So lets start with what races, I'd imagine, should be able to utilize this type.
I'd like to extend this type to Vizard, Akki,and Arrancar.
Vizard:
So I imagine the biggest argument against this would be regarding when/if the vizard has a mask and gets the boosts from it. What then? To start I feel like the drawbacks in this type are substantial enough to compensate. For one thing they get one physical stat decreased from the get go so your either punching things with force enough to break buildings but are fairly slow at moving in general or your moving like speedy Gonzales but your not hitting terribly hard physically. Which in turn also describes the characters overall ability to handle hits, direct and indirect.
Assuming the user gets to 10 posts of combat, which I'd argue is probably a reasonable amount, they've lost their speed bonus or their speed is halved again. So it's now 1/4th of what its original stat point total. The 2x bonus from the mask or even the 3x bonus from resurrection will have great difficulty keeping one in a fight at this point just due to the sheer debuffs the user suffers. Regardless the fight is going to be over very soon mask/ress active or not with the user of this type at a disadvantage as they are prone to suffer more the fight drags out.
Another point to stats since most users will be in rank 3 positions at this their cap for any OS is 800. Fairly average with 1600 maximum if they have the mask and can use it. Considering the numerous other types that can achieve 1000-1200 OS it's not as though those of this type will completely dominate the playing field. Not to mention the sensory decrease, which sure can be on ES but a decrease is still a decrease. I imagine though if this gets opened up it would likely receive a change anyway that would narrow the choice to Senses or Instinct anyway so that would solve the problem in and of itself.
Now for why this race should have this type. The understanding I have for this type is that it's a person who deeply understands their release and it's powerset as well as their own inherent abilities. I think that the fact this gets brought up through just the first inner hollow fight alone pretty aptly describes why vizards should be allowed. Per the requirements they have to fight 4 other fights, losing two and winning two just to get to the point so that they can fight. These fights have to impact them. Not to mention the experience they must gain to get bankai as they have to apply for it same as other TT Shinigami and then the fight with the hollow itself.
The hollow fight alone shows all the pro's and con's of their powers just due to the fact the inner hollow is fighting you with the same powers. Not to mention that their abilities to use said powers and fighting style is far superior to the RPC's own. The user MUST understand and learn their own fighting style's strengths and weaknesses and take advantage of both if they have any hope of winning. This isn't even talking about how the fight will actively impact the RPC on a fundamental level. Their experiences, their mindset, their ability to adapt and overcome this challenge in particular are all taken into account. Even if they fail the user is never going to be the same person afterward and I'd imagine they'd fit the bill of wise, calm, and nowhere near as rash or hasty as other Shinigami given this experience.
So as far as the actual idea behind the type this race once they deal with the first fight absolutely hits the nail on the head just due to the experiences prior to and the experience of that inner hollow fight. The only thing they may lack is the actual age number but considering how we act with higher ranks where age is only a dictator of aping into that spot I'd think we could follow a similar rule for someone that has significant IC reasoning for being this type.
Akki:
So I'm not entirely sure where the main argument would be here aside from maybe an exceptionally powerful Evainar Guard if the user chooses RS as their spiritual stat increase. In this case it's very powerful being at 1600 at rank 3 or 2400 at rank 4 with base stats and assuming they go for Evainar with it's 25% boost the skin guard is now 2000 at Rank 3 and 3000 at rank 4. However with Evainar Guard following the same drawbacks that Hierro follows the opponent can bypass this defense with either their second level release or hitting the akki enough times to make this defense not applicable. This is my understanding, if I'm wrong please let me know. So regardless of how high this skin defense starts out it's more than likely going to get bypassed one way or another and I'd be willing to be if someone actually saw an akki that wasn't an arrancar with Las Noches they're probably going to go second stage release just due to the sheer fact it's a hellion. And nothing from hell is supposed to get out of hell.
Another point to note the increase in release cost affects this type far more than it does other races. With 4 releases (5 max) they are going to have to pay a lot more for their release than the average two release race. Even on a power focused character 4 releases with a 50% increased cost to each is going to hurt in the long run. Especially if you don't build into SPPR considering most hell techs are inherently more expensive than other techs.
Honestly for why this race should get this type I can't imagine an Akki that's not going to fit the age requirements assuming one apps into this race. This race should inherently be a VERY old race just due to the fact they are made the same way arrancar are, just in hell. It's not an easy task nor will it ever be to actually break one's mask off in hell. This isn't even taking into account how hell operates on the normal. It's EXACTLY like Hueco Mundo but worse. Beings kill to gain more power and avoid punishments if possible. They HAVE to know their powers and they should be using them with the utmost efficiency, ruthless efficiency at that. Hell this race isn't even limited to Fighter V2 which is a similar but lesser type by comparison to the benefits this type gives so the idea they could understand their release enough to have extra techs isn't that far out of the normal scope of things.
Arrancar:
I'm going to be honest I don't see why they can't be allowed this type. This type doesn't inherently break them if anything it more limits them due to increased cost on their release which if they go Segunda means it's a whooping 900 reiatsu or 600 for primera. Or the fact that they have breakdown fatigue now which applies negatives in a shorter duration than their release at class 1. Hell to even make full use of this type they'd need to be rank 4 because otherwise they retain average OS and heirro with an extra tech for primera in return for it's increased cost. Unless there is something I'm missing I truly don't see why an arrancar can't take on this type.
I'd like to point out that I picked these races because they are the closest in release and how they function to others already allowed. I'd argue reasonably this type could easily find it's place in a number of other races such as Nakabakki, Saika, Hason, Mod Souls, Rogue's even. I admit I'm not familiar enough to really make an argument with them because I've never used them nor looked into them as much as I have the above races. I'd also like to point out that this type should probably be edited with regards to quincy as they don't use a bow release anymore and have properties they choose from instead. I'd imagine the simple idea is they get an extra property that they can use as they see fit but I'll leave that to mods to look over and decide.
In short while I can understand if this were to remain as a specialized type for the races that it applies to already I believe it can very easily fit into almost every race on site with minor tweaks for a few races. Most however don't need much editing and given the drawbacks no one race in particular is going to benefit so hugely that they will be become broken from this type. At least not what I understand and can see.
With that said what are your thoughts? What did I miss or not recognize as a legitimate reason to not have this type expanded out? As I said prior this is a discussion and not a proposition.
Side note, forgive me if something here doesn't sound right. I'm pretty tired and I'm certain that affected this post. Had to rewrite it several times so if there's anything that's not clear or I need to say it better let me know and I'll get on it.
{Experienced type}
Type: Experienced
Description: An older person, one that has finally reached a level of power and a maturity that truly earns them the title of "respectable." These characters must be calm, wise, and dignified, rather than hyper or rash like those of the younger generation. Generally, these people appear to be between 45-65, and for Shinigami, their actual age tends to be 800-1300 years.
Advantage:
Rank 3: Double one Physical and one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 200). Shinigami can have one additional technique in each level of Zanpakutō Release, meaning up to two extra techniques in Zanpakutō. Instead of six, eight possible techniques. Fullbringers can have one additional free-choice property as part of their Secondary Fullbring. Quincy may have one additional property as part of their Level Two Bow Release. Step technique speed is increased by x3, though costs remain the same.
Rank 4: Triple one Physical and one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 300). Shinigami can have one additional technique in each level of Zanpakutō Release, meaning up to two extra techniques in Zanpakutō, in addition to one further technique that can be added to either Level. Instead of six possible Zanpakuto techniques, they get nine. Fullbringers can have one additional property as part of their Secondary Fullbring, as well as an additional property for their Level 2 Fullbring. Quincy may have one additional free-choice property as part of their Level Two Bow Release, as well as an additional free-choice property as part of their Level Three Bow Release. Gains 5 additional non-Release technique slots. Step technique speed is increased by x5, though costs remain the same.
Disadvantage: Drawback for All Ranks: 50% decrease in Instinct, Energy Sensory, or Senses (100 would be 50). 50% decrease to Strength or Speed (whichever one wasn't increased. 100 would be 50). All Releases are increased in cost by 50%. Only Ranks 3 and 4 can pick this Type. This Type has a special "fatigue." Instead of fatiguing continuously with combat, this Type has "breakdown fatigue." Once combat is initiated, it begins until there is minimum of four posts of consecutive resting and non-combat. Drawbacks are done in groups of 5.
5 posts - Fatigued, greatly drained of stamina and energy. Movement becomes much, much harder.
10 posts - Speed increase is lost if one exists. If not, Speed is halved (100 would be 50). Likewise, fatigue is huge now. Can no longer continue to fight at fullest.
15 posts - Reiatsu Strength increase is lost if one exists. If not, Reiatsu Strength is halved (100 would be 50). Fatigue is massive. Movement becomes ridiculously difficult.
20 posts - Body begins to break down. Bones are more brittle, so they begin to wear, crack, and snap. Things can break more easily as the body begins to knot up and immobilize itself.
25 posts and beyond - Body gradually begins to shut down in movement and function, and can no longer work for physical movement or combat.
Race Restrictions: Available only to Shinigami, Fullbringers, and Quincy.
Initial Weapons: One Starting Weapon (i.e. one Zanpakutō, one Doll, etc.)
Type: Experienced
Description: An older person, one that has finally reached a level of power and a maturity that truly earns them the title of "respectable." These characters must be calm, wise, and dignified, rather than hyper or rash like those of the younger generation. Generally, these people appear to be between 45-65, and for Shinigami, their actual age tends to be 800-1300 years.
Advantage:
Rank 3: Double one Physical and one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 200). Shinigami can have one additional technique in each level of Zanpakutō Release, meaning up to two extra techniques in Zanpakutō. Instead of six, eight possible techniques. Fullbringers can have one additional free-choice property as part of their Secondary Fullbring. Quincy may have one additional property as part of their Level Two Bow Release. Step technique speed is increased by x3, though costs remain the same.
Rank 4: Triple one Physical and one Spiritual Stat (100 would be 300). Shinigami can have one additional technique in each level of Zanpakutō Release, meaning up to two extra techniques in Zanpakutō, in addition to one further technique that can be added to either Level. Instead of six possible Zanpakuto techniques, they get nine. Fullbringers can have one additional property as part of their Secondary Fullbring, as well as an additional property for their Level 2 Fullbring. Quincy may have one additional free-choice property as part of their Level Two Bow Release, as well as an additional free-choice property as part of their Level Three Bow Release. Gains 5 additional non-Release technique slots. Step technique speed is increased by x5, though costs remain the same.
Disadvantage: Drawback for All Ranks: 50% decrease in Instinct, Energy Sensory, or Senses (100 would be 50). 50% decrease to Strength or Speed (whichever one wasn't increased. 100 would be 50). All Releases are increased in cost by 50%. Only Ranks 3 and 4 can pick this Type. This Type has a special "fatigue." Instead of fatiguing continuously with combat, this Type has "breakdown fatigue." Once combat is initiated, it begins until there is minimum of four posts of consecutive resting and non-combat. Drawbacks are done in groups of 5.
5 posts - Fatigued, greatly drained of stamina and energy. Movement becomes much, much harder.
10 posts - Speed increase is lost if one exists. If not, Speed is halved (100 would be 50). Likewise, fatigue is huge now. Can no longer continue to fight at fullest.
15 posts - Reiatsu Strength increase is lost if one exists. If not, Reiatsu Strength is halved (100 would be 50). Fatigue is massive. Movement becomes ridiculously difficult.
20 posts - Body begins to break down. Bones are more brittle, so they begin to wear, crack, and snap. Things can break more easily as the body begins to knot up and immobilize itself.
25 posts and beyond - Body gradually begins to shut down in movement and function, and can no longer work for physical movement or combat.
Race Restrictions: Available only to Shinigami, Fullbringers, and Quincy.
Initial Weapons: One Starting Weapon (i.e. one Zanpakutō, one Doll, etc.)
Alright so with the type brought up so everyone can take a moment to look at it here's my reasons for why I'd like to consider this type to be opened up for more races. Before I go further however the intent of this thread isn't so much as a suggestion or a proposition. I'd just like to discuss the idea on if it can be opened up further. It may not be able to but I'd at least like to place the question in the open.
So lets start with what races, I'd imagine, should be able to utilize this type.
I'd like to extend this type to Vizard, Akki,and Arrancar.
Vizard:
So I imagine the biggest argument against this would be regarding when/if the vizard has a mask and gets the boosts from it. What then? To start I feel like the drawbacks in this type are substantial enough to compensate. For one thing they get one physical stat decreased from the get go so your either punching things with force enough to break buildings but are fairly slow at moving in general or your moving like speedy Gonzales but your not hitting terribly hard physically. Which in turn also describes the characters overall ability to handle hits, direct and indirect.
Assuming the user gets to 10 posts of combat, which I'd argue is probably a reasonable amount, they've lost their speed bonus or their speed is halved again. So it's now 1/4th of what its original stat point total. The 2x bonus from the mask or even the 3x bonus from resurrection will have great difficulty keeping one in a fight at this point just due to the sheer debuffs the user suffers. Regardless the fight is going to be over very soon mask/ress active or not with the user of this type at a disadvantage as they are prone to suffer more the fight drags out.
Another point to stats since most users will be in rank 3 positions at this their cap for any OS is 800. Fairly average with 1600 maximum if they have the mask and can use it. Considering the numerous other types that can achieve 1000-1200 OS it's not as though those of this type will completely dominate the playing field. Not to mention the sensory decrease, which sure can be on ES but a decrease is still a decrease. I imagine though if this gets opened up it would likely receive a change anyway that would narrow the choice to Senses or Instinct anyway so that would solve the problem in and of itself.
Now for why this race should have this type. The understanding I have for this type is that it's a person who deeply understands their release and it's powerset as well as their own inherent abilities. I think that the fact this gets brought up through just the first inner hollow fight alone pretty aptly describes why vizards should be allowed. Per the requirements they have to fight 4 other fights, losing two and winning two just to get to the point so that they can fight. These fights have to impact them. Not to mention the experience they must gain to get bankai as they have to apply for it same as other TT Shinigami and then the fight with the hollow itself.
The hollow fight alone shows all the pro's and con's of their powers just due to the fact the inner hollow is fighting you with the same powers. Not to mention that their abilities to use said powers and fighting style is far superior to the RPC's own. The user MUST understand and learn their own fighting style's strengths and weaknesses and take advantage of both if they have any hope of winning. This isn't even talking about how the fight will actively impact the RPC on a fundamental level. Their experiences, their mindset, their ability to adapt and overcome this challenge in particular are all taken into account. Even if they fail the user is never going to be the same person afterward and I'd imagine they'd fit the bill of wise, calm, and nowhere near as rash or hasty as other Shinigami given this experience.
So as far as the actual idea behind the type this race once they deal with the first fight absolutely hits the nail on the head just due to the experiences prior to and the experience of that inner hollow fight. The only thing they may lack is the actual age number but considering how we act with higher ranks where age is only a dictator of aping into that spot I'd think we could follow a similar rule for someone that has significant IC reasoning for being this type.
Akki:
So I'm not entirely sure where the main argument would be here aside from maybe an exceptionally powerful Evainar Guard if the user chooses RS as their spiritual stat increase. In this case it's very powerful being at 1600 at rank 3 or 2400 at rank 4 with base stats and assuming they go for Evainar with it's 25% boost the skin guard is now 2000 at Rank 3 and 3000 at rank 4. However with Evainar Guard following the same drawbacks that Hierro follows the opponent can bypass this defense with either their second level release or hitting the akki enough times to make this defense not applicable. This is my understanding, if I'm wrong please let me know. So regardless of how high this skin defense starts out it's more than likely going to get bypassed one way or another and I'd be willing to be if someone actually saw an akki that wasn't an arrancar with Las Noches they're probably going to go second stage release just due to the sheer fact it's a hellion. And nothing from hell is supposed to get out of hell.
Another point to note the increase in release cost affects this type far more than it does other races. With 4 releases (5 max) they are going to have to pay a lot more for their release than the average two release race. Even on a power focused character 4 releases with a 50% increased cost to each is going to hurt in the long run. Especially if you don't build into SPPR considering most hell techs are inherently more expensive than other techs.
Honestly for why this race should get this type I can't imagine an Akki that's not going to fit the age requirements assuming one apps into this race. This race should inherently be a VERY old race just due to the fact they are made the same way arrancar are, just in hell. It's not an easy task nor will it ever be to actually break one's mask off in hell. This isn't even taking into account how hell operates on the normal. It's EXACTLY like Hueco Mundo but worse. Beings kill to gain more power and avoid punishments if possible. They HAVE to know their powers and they should be using them with the utmost efficiency, ruthless efficiency at that. Hell this race isn't even limited to Fighter V2 which is a similar but lesser type by comparison to the benefits this type gives so the idea they could understand their release enough to have extra techs isn't that far out of the normal scope of things.
Arrancar:
I'm going to be honest I don't see why they can't be allowed this type. This type doesn't inherently break them if anything it more limits them due to increased cost on their release which if they go Segunda means it's a whooping 900 reiatsu or 600 for primera. Or the fact that they have breakdown fatigue now which applies negatives in a shorter duration than their release at class 1. Hell to even make full use of this type they'd need to be rank 4 because otherwise they retain average OS and heirro with an extra tech for primera in return for it's increased cost. Unless there is something I'm missing I truly don't see why an arrancar can't take on this type.
I'd like to point out that I picked these races because they are the closest in release and how they function to others already allowed. I'd argue reasonably this type could easily find it's place in a number of other races such as Nakabakki, Saika, Hason, Mod Souls, Rogue's even. I admit I'm not familiar enough to really make an argument with them because I've never used them nor looked into them as much as I have the above races. I'd also like to point out that this type should probably be edited with regards to quincy as they don't use a bow release anymore and have properties they choose from instead. I'd imagine the simple idea is they get an extra property that they can use as they see fit but I'll leave that to mods to look over and decide.
In short while I can understand if this were to remain as a specialized type for the races that it applies to already I believe it can very easily fit into almost every race on site with minor tweaks for a few races. Most however don't need much editing and given the drawbacks no one race in particular is going to benefit so hugely that they will be become broken from this type. At least not what I understand and can see.
With that said what are your thoughts? What did I miss or not recognize as a legitimate reason to not have this type expanded out? As I said prior this is a discussion and not a proposition.
Side note, forgive me if something here doesn't sound right. I'm pretty tired and I'm certain that affected this post. Had to rewrite it several times so if there's anything that's not clear or I need to say it better let me know and I'll get on it.
